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Posted: Sat, 26 Jan 2008, 1:15am Post subject: some hands |
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i rarely, if ever, get pms
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 3992
WPP: 188
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ok since I dont have much time to play lately I've been playing heads-up when I do get the chance.
I played this guy for a nice little hour plus battle. He has like a 60/10. I was running maybe 45/40.
He was basically a station postflop - when he did raise it was rarely a bluff.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (2 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Button ($74.75)
Hero ($119.90)
Preflop: Hero is BB with 4 , 9 .
Button calls $0.50, Hero checks.
Flop: ($2) 4 , 7, 9 (2 players)
Hero bets $1, Button raises to $3, Hero raises to $12, Button calls $9.
Turn: ($26) 2 (2 players)
Hero bets $21, Button calls $21.
River: ($68) Q (2 players)
Hero bets $85.9 (All-In), Button calls $40.75 (All-In).
Final Pot: $149.5
Hand 2:
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (2 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Button ($136.50)
Hero ($151.50)
Preflop: Hero is BB with A, T.
Button calls $0.50, Hero raises to $5, Button calls $4.
Flop: ($10) 4, T, 8 (2 players)
Hero bets $7, Button calls $7.
Turn: ($24) Q (2 players)
Hero bets $14, Button raises to $30, Hero calls $16.
River: ($84) A (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $37, Hero calls $37.
Final Pot: $158
Hand 3: Is this a check on the river. Can I find a fold here??
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (2 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
BB ($163.80)
Hero ($183.60)
Preflop: Hero is Button with 5, 5.
Hero raises to $3, BB calls $2.
Flop: ($6) 5, 6, J (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $4, BB calls $4.
Turn: ($14) K (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $11, BB calls $11.
River: ($36) 9 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $25, BB raises to $76, Hero calls $51.
Final Pot: $188
Hand 4:
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (2 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Button ($238.60)
Hero ($105)
Preflop: Hero is BB with K, T.
Button raises to $3, Hero calls $2.
Flop: ($6) T, K, Q (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $4, Hero raises to $12, Button raises to $36, Hero raises to $102, Button calls $66.
Turn: ($210) 7 (2 players)
River: ($210) 7 (2 players)
Final Pot: $210 |
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Posted: Sat, 26 Jan 2008, 9:30am Post subject: |
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Almost as bad as that idiot redgrape
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 5933
WPP: 73
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Hand 1: fold when he raises the flop, your OOP this hand will end up more as a disaster than a solid win.
Hand 2: C/f turn again because of OOP issue and so little value.
Hand 3: Std ofc don't fold river even though it looks like 87.
Hand 4: Hmmm I can't imagine playing for stacks here is very good, but if you want to play for stacks I think leading is better.
Maybe c/c flop, c/r a safe turn? c/c flop lead turn? I think you need to get creative here, I'm not sure what line we're going to be able to find a fold with though. |
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Posted: Sat, 26 Jan 2008, 10:05am Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 1945
WPP: 55
Location: Dizzy
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| the only hand u won was hand 3 |
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Posted: Sat, 26 Jan 2008, 4:31pm Post subject: |
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i rarely, if ever, get pms
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 3992
WPP: 188
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I didn't win any of em - that's why I posted em.
but I'm looking more for reasons than results.
Hand 1 - I've got 2 pair. Your're really just giving up on the flop with 2 pair there?? That seems so weak. I'm ahead of tons of crap. I agree that calling instead of re-repopping might have been better, but no way am I giving up. River should prolly be a check/call rather than my push, but it was early and people stack off with hands like A9, TT-AA enough there that I didn't hate it. (Opp had 9xQc)
Hand 2 - check/folding that turn doesn't sit well with me, but I guess that turn card is about as bad as I could want. (villain had 9J)
Hand 3 - we had been battling enough here that I almost folded. I didn't, he had 78, just checking to see if this was standard like I thought.
Hand 4 - was probably the only one where I knew I had played it bad as soon as I did. My only excuse is that I had him on AK or AA more than I did QK because he really didn't raise much from the button (he limped almost every hand tho) - then again AJ was definitely a possibility there. |
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Posted: Sat, 26 Jan 2008, 5:13pm Post subject: |
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Almost as bad as that idiot redgrape
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 5933
WPP: 73
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Chardrian,
If he has a 9 and a club draw we're just barely ahead, and thats one of the best case scenarios and unlikely. Same as 9 without a club. |
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Posted: Sat, 26 Jan 2008, 7:46pm Post subject: |
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i rarely, if ever, get pms
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 3992
WPP: 188
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I understand we're barely ahead if we just shove and play for stacks on the flop (which is why my reraise was purty dumb). But we didn't shove.
Just giving up there, even oop seems dumb. I'd much rather call and either c/r or lead a blank turn then just give up w/ 2 pair. From the hands I've played so far (which granted is prolly still less than 3k hands) you win or lose sessions because of a couple of hands. Just seems to me that I'd be missing value by check/folding hand 1. |
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Posted: Sat, 26 Jan 2008, 10:33pm Post subject: |
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Almost as bad as that idiot redgrape
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 5933
WPP: 73
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| chardrian wrote: | I understand we're barely ahead if we just shove and play for stacks on the flop (which is why my reraise was purty dumb). But we didn't shove.
Just giving up there, even oop seems dumb. I'd much rather call and either c/r or lead a blank turn then just give up w/ 2 pair. From the hands I've played so far (which granted is prolly still less than 3k hands) you win or lose sessions because of a couple of hands. Just seems to me that I'd be missing value by check/folding hand 1. |
Call and c/r is okay but doesn't seem that much different than threebet the flop. People just don't reraise worse hands on this board, especially fish. Your up against a flush like 40% of the time, and a set or the one better two pair at least 30% of the time IMO. Fold flop easily the best move. |
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Posted: Sun, 27 Jan 2008, 3:54pm Post subject: |
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i rarely, if ever, get pms
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 3992
WPP: 188
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It's a lot different than a 3 bet flop because we are oop.
My mind is truly boggled that people aren't raising hands worse than a made flush or a better 2pair/set here on this board in position. Raising here gives the position player the free card on the turn and often takes it down right there. I would think that there are a lot more hands that are raising here than made hands. |
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Posted: Mon, 28 Jan 2008, 3:23am Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 3134
WPP: 87
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| chardrian wrote: | It's a lot different than a 3 bet flop because we are oop.
My mind is truly boggled that people aren't raising hands worse than a made flush or a better 2pair/set here on this board in position. Raising here gives the position player the free card on the turn and often takes it down right there. I would think that there are a lot more hands that are raising here than made hands. | i might be in left field here
but this sounds like donkament talk where everybody is obsessed with playing flushdraws balls to the wall
not saying there s anything wrong with playing that way, it s just something to consider when putting other ppl on ranges |
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Posted: Mon, 28 Jan 2008, 8:32am Post subject: |
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Almost as bad as that idiot redgrape
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 5933
WPP: 73
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| chardrian wrote: | It's a lot different than a 3 bet flop because we are oop.
My mind is truly boggled that people aren't raising hands worse than a made flush or a better 2pair/set here on this board in position. Raising here gives the position player the free card on the turn and often takes it down right there. I would think that there are a lot more hands that are raising here than made hands. |
Why are you assuming opp is a decent player? |
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Posted: Mon, 28 Jan 2008, 8:33am Post subject: |
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Almost as bad as that idiot redgrape
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 5933
WPP: 73
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| chardrian wrote: | It's a lot different than a 3 bet flop because we are oop.
My mind is truly boggled that people aren't raising hands worse than a made flush or a better 2pair/set here on this board in position. Raising here gives the position player the free card on the turn and often takes it down right there. I would think that there are a lot more hands that are raising here than made hands. |
You said yourself the guy was a donk, why wouldn't you expect him to play like one? That's a reasonable assumption right? |
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Posted: Mon, 28 Jan 2008, 5:51pm Post subject: |
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i rarely, if ever, get pms
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 3992
WPP: 188
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I'm not saying I disagree with any of what you said, just that I'm boggled by it.
Don't forget I'm a newbie to this type of game so treat me like one please. Explanations help a lot more than "fold flop" do to old farts like me.
Genitruc - you're probably right about the donkament thought process, but I would think in this situation it holds true for cash as well. I don't think I'd have much of a problem getting it in here with Ac and any pair on that flop knowing that I am almost never much less than 50% here.
To ISF - I didn't assume he was a good player, but I figured even donks would raise in position. |
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Posted: Mon, 28 Jan 2008, 7:36pm Post subject: |
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Almost as bad as that idiot redgrape
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 5933
WPP: 73
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| Donks are usually the worst thin vbettors in the world, as well as the least aggressive. |
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