Self Discipline and Me

are you kidding me??You busted in One day? Do you even know what AA looks like?

gl op

[ ] played within his limits

OMG I'm so glad my man is back. And damn the moderator that locked the last one. Laughing

Slev1in is the shit. Thanks for the link Muzzard, I would never have seen it.

You go lucky!!! Prove them all wrong you crazy cowboy you!!!

slevin - if something is not working for you, change it.

The 38$ tournaments were entered after I had finished my op, hence them being the last two tournaments played. they were the recreational tournamnents as stackx will testify who railed a few of my games that day.

Thanks everyone for your words they are nice and encouraging. I surely have alot to learn. I am throwing everything I thought I knew out of the window and starting again.

My strategy was basically this: -

Raise and be prepared to go all in with AA KK QQ AK, from any position. If QQ be cautious if faising more than one re raise,or a re-raise and caller.

Limp all PP's < 10,10, and throw them away if they don't flop a set on the flop. (or just check it down). Unless the post flop bet is very small in which case maybe call or go over the top with a sensible raise.

Raise 10,10, jj - and if it' an over to the board call a flop bet, otherwise bet and check fourth and the river.

If someones bluffing alot and I have position on them 2bet their flop bet with any two cards. fold if they 3bet.

Later in SNGs - push fold, open the ranges. Push alot more early hands taking into consideration chip stacks.

Early on hardly ever play suited connectors unless 9,10+ - and then with caution (as I can find it hard to put them down if top pair hits sometimes.) Play A-X suited in a multiway limped pot, and perhaps with one 3/4 bb raise early on, with a couple of callers - but not facing a big raise.

This has basically been my strategy but it doesn't seem to be a winning one. So as I say i'm throwing it away and starting again. Will do nothing but read and watch / play free rolls for a week and then make a small deposit and try to play with what i've learnt.

Thank again all the +ve people out there that take the time to read my op thread

*Note - this will be the last advice I will offer unless you prove you can accomplish this. Mainly because, while I almost already feel it's a waste of time (mainly because of your self-discipline), I'm not certain as you do have persistence on your side. I'm by no means stating this is the best advice you will find, but it is better than what you know right now, so get to it.

If you actually want to learn, and not just waste time, then you need to get to reading and understanding.. And start with a solid Bankroll Plan. Your bankroll plan isn't working and you know this. So change it. You do not have the skill set to beat the $13 SNGs, nor the $6 SNGs right now, as I'm sure you know now. And you said you don't want to risk a significant portion of cash anymore without knowing it's not just a waste, but an investment.

So therefore, I propose to you this. Deposit $50 on stars, and that is all. Never deposit again, unless you had to withdraw and you are replacing what you withdrew. Since you can "never" deposit again then this $50 isn't just "$50" anymore. This is an investment, that if cultivated can make you a lot of money in the future. And it's because this is an investment, you need to take the proper precautions to protect your roll. That obviously leads into playing with sufficient buyins for the level you wish to play. To do this correctly you should follow something similar to this:

- Play $1 SNGs till BR is $100. [will take a while, but you have a lot to learn]

- At $100 you can move to the $3.30 SNGs until the roll is >$150.

- At $150 BR, if you feel you have the skill set to beat the $5 SNGs then make the move, but be willing to drop down to the $3.30 SNGs if your roll drops to around $120 or so. However, you should have posted a few tourneys by now, and a lot of hands, so you should be sure if you can beat it or not (as indicated by other players advice).

- Play the $5 SNGs until you have around $500 or so, and sure you are a good SNG player, before moving to the $10 SNGs. As stated before, in $5 SNGs and below the play is rather soft, but above that level you begin to run into more and more good players who understand ICM (which you will need to learn soon).

- At this point you have accomplished a whole hell of alot. You will have increased your deposit ten-fold. If you choose to stick with SNGs, then go for it. If you choose to move to cash/MTTs, then you will have even more studying to do because they are different games and must be treated as such.

Here are some articles you should read before playing another SNG. And I don't mean read them once and that's it... Read each one of them until you understand it fully!!!

http://www.pocketfives.com/poker-articles/A-guide-to-single-table-tournaments-2426097

http://www.pocketfives.com/Poker-Strategy#15

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/forum/sng-tactics-digest-the-best-sng-forum-posts-are-in-here-t36043.html

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/forum/sng-tactics-faq-t15929.html

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/forum/another-example-of-bubble-shorthanded-aggression-t50176.html

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/forum/hh-using-bubble-aggression-t50295.html

There ya go for now... Read and understand those before playing again, then follow the bankroll plan and you will do much better (and maybe win).

cheers will do, i found a wcoop ticket in my stars account by accident, clicked tickets never knew it was there. You're currently unable to use them in wcoop but can use them on PCA steps so i'm grinding my way up the pca steps atm - who knows i might be jetting off to the caribean some time soon !

In the meantime cheers for the links i'll checkthem out later tonight

Thanks for the advice Daven just saw it, unfortunately I already lost (it was a 7$ ticket) but I did get to stage 2, which was 28$ ticket - but unfortunately didn't know about converting them,have to hold off on the cruise ship sunglasses for now. I'm just studying now for the next 7 days and not playing one hand. I'm also planning to incorporate more balance into my game in 7 days when I start again. I'll go swimming in the morning and play in the afternoon early evening. I'm looking forward to starting over with a new strategy foundation - I have the next 7 days more or less completely to myself so am going to invest the time wisely studying, something I should have done from the off - instead of reading for an hour or two here and there and then diving right in.

I'm now back at square one so to speak conceeding that I know nothing, but it's quite a nice stage to be at as things can only get better fromhere.

Cheers again for reading and commenting I appreciate it one and all.

all those following this thread, read the latest blog entry. I really think that you may have a chance this time lucky.

Okay that was fun for a day.

It's getting seriously PAINFUL again watching the regs try to help, making long thoughtful posts, and the response is always something like cheers for links, I'll check it out! blah blah free roll blah blah caribbean blah blah swimming blah blah never talking about poker itself blah blah only talking about hands and tourneys he won blah blah square one blah blah I found a leak - I'm not folding enough!!!! blah blah stop posting nonsense in my thread blah blah you're a piece of work blah blah.

You regs are so nice /bow. Stacks, I'm gonna go through all your links today and try to plug some leaks in my SNG game. Your time was not wasted there, thanks.

Meanwhile I'll keep giving Slev what he wants. Good luck Slev I know you'll make it! You're the best, keep at it, you will get there your own way I have faith! All you need is desire to be the greatest - and eventually it will come. Good luck on your new plan, I know you'll stick to it.

Sup, you got killed in werewolf.

not really red - i've spoken to stacks out of ftr and he convinced me he had my best interests in mind with his derision hence the change in attitude, as for other regs i've always appreciated the input of anyone trying to help me.

6 pence = 12 cents (approx)

A 'sixpence' is pre decimal currency.

Be easy baby. Let him do his own thing. If he wants to keep donking around and contributing to the poker economy, that's fine. If he wants to become a winning player, that's fine too.

Good deuce im pleased its your last post, as for deciding who gets to speak, sorry my mistake didn't know you was the god around here. As it goes I am not following Bankroll Management for the coming month it is a conscious descision I have made, we are all free thinking beings and capabable of making our own choices.

My game has grown immensely thanks to the comments of seasoned players here over the past few months and continues to grow everyday. How dare you petition them not to offer advice, because my playing style does not follow the same Bankroll Management that your more conventional play does. How dare you, I missed the part of the FTR terms that said if you don't follow BR management you can't ask for and receive playing advice, my mistake. I have developed a new strategy which is not based on BR management but is none the less well thought out. Time will tell if it is successful or not.

slevin you gotta stop saying you've developed new strategies. Good on yah for admitting yer not following BR management, but don't delude yourself into thinking it's some alternative, and equally valid 'strategy'.

BR management was developed because pros who have been playing the game for decades notices how very swingy this game is, and noticed that padding was necessary to not go broke during the inevitable downswings. The less conservative you are with your BR, the more likely you are to go broke and have to reload. If you succeed this time it's because you happened to hit a heater, not because your new strategy of not following BR management was somehow more valid than following proper BR management guidelines.

You seem to suffer from classic gambler's overconfidence. I did too when I first started. I tried to build my roll from $50 playing 25NL. It took me 4 times reloading before I hit a heater and it was just sheer luck that I didn't happen to hit a downswing that decimated my roll. Once I had built it up to $500 I then followed BR management guidelines because it was such a rough ride up to $500 that through experience I realized how risky it was to play underrolled.

I suspect you have the personality (similar to me) where you've gotta get burned a few times before you learn not to touch that hot stove, but when people here get frustrated with you -- know that it's because they've all been burned, and the naive sense of invincibility you seem to carry with you had the implication of invalidating what they've all learned through the experience that you lack.

That being said -- it's silly to get frustrated with you, or berate you for not listening. Eventually you'll realize the importance of BR management. Either that or you'll keep depositing time and time again. Either way, no skin of any of our backs.

I wish you luck man. Just remember that this game is an ongoing learning process, and the most important thing about conservative BR management is how it allows you to get the experience you need to move up the ranks without costing you significant coin. The learning process simply can't be rushed. All pros have played millions of hands and through that experience, their instincts have been finely tuned. You need that instinct to succeed at the levels you try to take stabs at, so by not following BR management you're basically choosing a considerably more expensive learning path.

So I guess I'll be seeing you on the $27 turbos that I donk around at. Good luck man!

Smile

Why we need BR management. My last 3 months after hitting an all time high BR in June and withdrawing some money, July almost ended my poker career. Most of the flat part is Aug, where I tore myself apart trying to fix whatever the hell I did.

.

sick jyms, makes me feel better, so thanks I guess

*Last edited by LuckySlevin on Sun, 05 Oct 2008, 3:15am; edited 1 time in total*

thanks for sharing that jyms im pleased you wheathered the storm, was it anything in particular you found that was causing it or just vairance? It reminds me of a question that i've been meaning to ask for a while - anyone please feel free to answer... I was wondering out of the people that have been playing for at least a year regularly most days, what is the longest 'losing' period they have had, and what is the 'average' losing period they've had. Like has it been not making money for 2 months, or have any of you gone longer than that? also the more experienced players, is there a 'run bad average' that you just think is comfortable in terms of time, say for instance you were running bad for a week, are you able to think I'd expect this to last no more than x amount of time on average? and what would that x amount of time be? Obviously the question only really makes sense for the regular players that have been playing for a year or probabally longer, but I'd be really interested at what the answers were, cheers.

edit: should probabally replace time with hands to be more accurate but I think you get where I'm coming from with this question

Thanks Dozer for your kind words - yeah the gambler in me is on the reigns at the moment - I just feel liberated now I've decided to throw a little caution to the wind. Eventually I will follow sound Bankroll Management - I know from reading the threads here and everyones previous comments that it's the optimum strategy, but I'm just prepared to have a bit of a gamble for a month or two and see what happens, It will only be a short term thing a month or two at most and if I develop a roll in the process all the better, either way I will return to BR management at some point soon, that's for sure. I look forward to getting my chips taken at a rate of knots if I stumble onto one of your tables Wink

From his blog:

"I thought what do I want out of this? Am I happy settling for a slowly increasing bankroll over the next 6 months or do I want something more immediate? If more immediate, what steps can I take to give myself the best chance of success? Well the result was a one page strategy - i’ve called the 36k strategem which sets out a plan for me amassing 36k of poker wealth."

Actually there are quite a few professional players, and indeed regular players here who built the majority of their early roll by not following good BR management and then followed decent BR management once they had done so, I can provide examples if required. Just because someone doesn't play like a nit with their bankroll doesn't mean they are doomed to failure. I am somewhat of a maverick in life.

I will grow my overal strategy at the table by following sound advice and reading strategy daily, I will not allow myself to get bogged down in the mundane 'grind' that I read so many people engadged in however at this early juncture in my poker career. As I said I will revert eventually but for now I'm just going to play what ever stakes feel appropriate and see what happens. In fact I expect to be playing in 2k buy in tournaments within the next four weeks.

As to those people that keep groaning on something along the lines of ... blah blah... not worthy of our time... blah blah... not following br management blah blah... I say simply this is an operation thread, read it if you want or dont. But please don't constantly spam it up with comments that I am not worthy of your time. This thread is a record for myself to chart my own progress in the poker community, and further a repository of advice and thoughts from any well meaning individuals that may profer their advice. I have had quite enough of the 'you're not worthy' sentiments, and the 'us/we/ Vs you' that spikes the occasional posts so would kindly ask that you leave them at the door of my operation thread.

Everyone here barring a handful of people has huge wholes in their game so I'm not too concerned with that, the first step of betterment is admitting you don't know it all (ahem.)

Barring the odd $50 that I've borrowed once or twice, owing to the fact I've agreed to pay $70 back within a week, and always have, I don't do debt. So there is never any poker debt, just lost buyins, which I can actually afford in the first place.

And yes playing the highest stakes I can afford is a key part of the 36k strategem.

My skill set isn't as low as you would like to think. I do not understand why I am having trouble building a role at the 6$ and below sng's but I can be fairly sure it isn't because of my skill set. From reading here daily for the last 3 months I am sure I am well above the skill set needed to beat these tables, there isn't much by way of questions that people ask concerning ABC poker that I don't answer first in my head and then read I was generally on the right lines. Evidence speaks to the contrary though, so I will be doing what Warpe suggested on more than one occasion, and posting more hands when I play. I've already started doing that yesterday. I love the game of poker and am not enjoying it anymore because I feel bored to death by the restrictions BR management imposes that is why I'm having a break from BR discipline and just playing for a month or so. If I lose money for two months so be it, i've done that for the last three months so it will be no great loss, but on the chance that I win and make money I'll be further on than I am now from a poker money perspective and then will start seriously following BR management. I will be posting many more hands over the coming month and hope to gain some insight, I will also be sending Daven a tournement history or two which he's kindly agreed to review for me. Then, If I'm told that my strategy at the table is floored *then* I will happily take on what ever advice I need to improve. But do not assume for want or some other reason that I'm strategically a weak player, I actually find that quite insulting.

*Last edited by Thunder on Sun, 05 Oct 2008, 2:15pm; edited 1 time in total*

*Last edited by LuckySlevin on Sun, 05 Oct 2008, 2:17pm; edited 1 time in total*

These are not recent hands, they were picked as they are the exception to my play, and the OP wanted to belittle me.

Oh and for the record the 'I dont talk while I'm playing' was a response to an FTR regular that was insulting me while railing in front of the other players, and challenging me to Heads Up matches. Perhaps you can see where some of my attitude towards overly critical comments comes from now.

You're going it alone, and against the advice of the board, so you may as well explain your strategy.

Go on, you know you want to!

Props to you Slev1n on another 5 Spade

thread. Don't listin to what everyone else is saying. Faith in yourself is all you really need. I'll be sure to rail you in those 2k tournies in about a month. I'll be the one in the chat rooting for you. Also, I'll be sure to keep an eye out for your threads as I do really get endless amounts of joy out of them.

ohh almost forgot the popcorn eating dude.

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