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Posted: Sun, 14 Oct 2007, 12:32am Post subject: reverse implied odds?(s) |
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Full House
Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 677
WPP: 77
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| How do i figure them and how do i use them in my game? |
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Posted: Sun, 14 Oct 2007, 11:26am Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 3559
WPP: 97
Location: Your place or my place
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You dont really calculate them, you're just cognizant of them.
It's basically just a fancy way of saying "Even though I think I have the best hand right now, there are so many outs against me that i probably WONT by the river, and it'll cost me a lot of money to find out that I lost, so it'll be better overall to just fold now."
Think of a spot where theres 3 opponents and you have AT on a T98 board. Your reverse implied odds are pretty bad, a LOT of cards are bad for your hand -- any 6, 7, 8, 9, J, Q are likely to improve someone elses hand. Thats 18 outs, and thats assuming you're ahead in the first place. Folding here, even if you think youve got the best hand, is not a terrible move.
Put another way, its the ratio between the amount in the pot versus what it will cost you to play until the end of the hand.
The essential idea is that reverse implied odds should be considered when you are not certain you have the best hand. You think you have the best hand now, but it will cost more in future betting rounds to discover this.
Its more applicable in LHE than NL because you can raise enough in NL to price out draws, but it does come up once in a while. |
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Posted: Sun, 14 Oct 2007, 8:33pm Post subject: |
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Straight Flush
Joined: 07 Jul 2005
Posts: 7854
WPP: 135
Location: Sydney
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What eupho said. Not sure if you play cash or tourneys, but in tourneys you can have seriously bad reverse implied odds by playing marginal hands out of position when it costs you a lot of chips to find out you had the losing hand.
Here's an example. Early in a 1-table SNG, full table, stacks all around 1500, blinds 15/30, you're dealt A T UTG+1 and UTG folds. You decide to raise to 120, CO calls and the blinds fold. The pot at this stage is 275.
Flop comes A J 5 . You bet 180 and CO calls. The pot is now 635.
Turn comes 5. You check, CO bets 200, you call. The pot is now 1035.
River comes 7. You check, CO bets 250 and you have to call getting better than 5:1 odds and he shows you AQo.
So, even though you only raised to 120 preflop it cost you another 630 chips even though you didn't play that badly postflop because you couldn't let go of the second best hand. A LOT of bad players would lose their whole stack in this spot. |
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Posted: Sun, 14 Oct 2007, 8:38pm Post subject: |
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Straight Flush
Joined: 04 Jul 2006
Posts: 4344
WPP: 82
Location: Pwnsylvania
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In the most simple definition I could think of:
A situation in which you will lose the most when you are behind and win the least when you are ahead. |
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Posted: Tue, 16 Oct 2007, 8:14am Post subject: |
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Full House
Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 1087
WPP: 150
Location: GA
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Here's what I do when facing a bet. I'm on the button after the flop with air. The villain bets out. I imagine him calculating pot odds and then leaving me with just less than the odds I would need to call the bet. Then I try to narrow his range. Then, I either fold or raise intending to destroy those pot odds and drive out any draws (even with air, sometimes, depending upon my read).
This works well for me (level 2 thinking, playing the opponent's hand). I can usually get my money in good that way.
Reverse pot odds (ino) are just the regular pot odds my opponents are trying to earn on my bets/calls. If the guy seems to understand pot odds, I won't call his bets figuring his bets will lay odds in his favor. |
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Posted: Wed, 17 Oct 2007, 2:16am Post subject: |
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Royal Flush
Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 17138
WPP: 83
Location: Walk the Walk, Flop the Flop.
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PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
UTG ($338.90)
MP ($386.40)
CO ($284.55)
Button ($122.70)
SB ($311.45)
Hero ($213.45)
Preflop: Hero is BB with 7 , K.
3 folds, Button calls $2, 1 fold, Hero checks.
Flop: ($5) 8 , K , J (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $4, Hero calls $4.
Turn: ($13) 2 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $10, Hero calls $10.
River: ($33) Q (2 players)
Hero bets $15, Button calls $15.
Final Pot: $63
Results in white below:
Hero has 7d Kd (one pair, kings).
Button has Ad Td (straight, ace high).
Outcome: Button wins $63. |
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Posted: Wed, 17 Oct 2007, 8:39am Post subject: |
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High Card
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 13
WPP: 22
Location: Haarlem
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| Quote: | | A situation in which you will lose the most when you are behind and win the least when you are ahead. |
Nice hehe |
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