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Posted: Mon, 11 Aug 2008, 1:03pm Post subject: Quick-Fix American Guide to Bonuses and Rakeback for Newbies
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 2838
WPP: 106
Location: #flopturnriver
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This is a quick guide I'm throwing together that falls under the same category as most of my threads: answering shit that I keep getting asked over and over again so that I can just link people. The topic is people who are starting off with a small bankroll that are new in Internet NLHE and want to make the most of their experience.
Step 1: Make a small deposit of at least $50 to PokerStars and get the deposit Bonus detailed here: http://www.flopturnriver.com/reviews/Online-Poker-PokerStars.php
Of the two major poker sites available to Americans, PokerStars has the smallest stakes No-Limit Hold'em (NLHE) tables which is where you're going to start off playing. The deposit Bonus is 150% up to $75 (on $50 deposit) and requires ten times the Bonus amount in VPPs to clear the Bonus, and you have six months to do so. That means that if you deposit $50, your Bonus will be for $75 and you'll need to earn 750 VPPs over the next six months to release the Bonus, which isn't going to be hard to do. This Bonus will take a while to clear, but since you'll barely be paying any rake at 2nl and 5nl, it's not such a big deal.
Step 2: Grind $0.01/0.02 and buy in with $2 instead of $5 until you get to $150.
It's important to buy in with $2 instead of $5 at $0.01/0.02 because you're going to want to get used to 100bb effective stacks, which is the industry standard at the moment. Much later on in your poker career as you grow as a player into mid-stakes and high-stakes you might want to learn how to short-stack NLHE and/or how to play with deeper stacks, but for know we want to concentrate on play with ~100bb effective stacks since that's what you'll be doing most of the time.
Step 3: Grind $0.02/0.05 and buy in with $5 (not $10) until you get to $300. Grind $0.05/0.10 until you get to $600.
Similar to step 2. Now you will occasionally be getting a VPP here or there, but you don't need to worry about it. You will clear more VPPs in a week of $0.10/0.25 than you will in the entire time you spend at all lower stakes combined, but you need to grind through the stakes to learn the basics and cultivate some patience, discipline, and self-control to make sure you'll succeed at larger stakes.
Step 4: If you haven't cleared your deposit Bonus at PokerStars, play $0.10/0.25 until you do. Then, get Rakeback (very, very, very important) and the deposit Bonus at Full Tilt Poker and move your $600+ over there to play $0.10/0.25.
The Rakeback and Bonus will give you a considerable edge in building your bankroll at Full Tilt Poker while you play through low stakes.
Step 5: Once you get $1500, make the move up to $0.25/0.50, and once you get up to $3500-$4000, move on up to $0.50/1.00.
This is the part where you just move up through the stakes, improve at poker, and grind your ass off.
Step 6: Once you are playing enough volume at 50nl or 100nl or 200nl to consistently make Platinum Star VIP status on PokerStars and you have cleared the Full Tilt deposit Bonus, move your bankroll back over to PokerStars.
Once you are playing this volume, the bonuses at PokerStars are similar in value to the Rakeback you get at Full Tilt, but in the meantime you're able to work on achieving Supernova VIP status, which is much, much better than Full Tilt's Rakeback. |
Last edited by spoonitnow on Thu, 20 Nov 2008, 2:32pm; edited 1 time in total
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Posted: Mon, 11 Aug 2008, 3:04pm Post subject:
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Straight
Joined: 04 Jun 2007
Posts: 249
WPP: 102
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| Haha...a LOT easier said than done. Looks so ez when its written on paper like that. |
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Posted: Mon, 11 Aug 2008, 3:07pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 2838
WPP: 106
Location: #flopturnriver
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| L_Clan_Sup3rMaN wrote: | | Haha...a LOT easier said than done. Looks so ez when its written on paper like that. |
If you could play 50k hands/month then you could do this in under a year easily. Then you''ll be able to sit down at a computer and make money whenever you want. That's a fun skill to have. |
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Posted: Mon, 11 Aug 2008, 3:47pm Post subject:
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Straight
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 126
WPP: 133
Location: Brussels
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I got a question:
I got 720$ in my PS BR, I'm interested in moving to FTP,
I have an account but have not deposited anything on it yet, is it possible to get the Bonus AND Rakeback? if so how?
(links to sites would be useful)
thx for advice btw |
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Posted: Mon, 11 Aug 2008, 5:26pm Post subject:
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3-of-a-Kind
Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 93
WPP: 113
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| xptboy wrote: | I got a question:
I got 720$ in my PS BR, I'm interested in moving to FTP,
I have an account but have not deposited anything on it yet, is it possible to get the Bonus AND Rakeback? if so how?
(links to sites would be useful)
thx for advice btw |
Yes you can get Rakeback and Bonus. Go to any of the major Rakeback providers (search here, or google) and you should be good. I'm using raketherake and have been just fine with it. Just do some short reading about what they offer. One of the sites I was choosing did a thing where they rounded off the amount of Rakeback you get and put the remainder into a freeroll tourney. That was no good for me b/c I don't play that much and sometimes all my Rakeback would be taken away for that week. |
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Posted: Mon, 11 Aug 2008, 6:15pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 2838
WPP: 106
Location: #flopturnriver
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| xptboy wrote: | I got a question:
I got 720$ in my PS BR, I'm interested in moving to FTP,
I have an account but have not deposited anything on it yet, is it possible to get the Bonus AND Rakeback? if so how?
(links to sites would be useful)
thx for advice btw |
If you already have an account that does not have Rakeback, then you can't get Rakeback. It doesn't matter if you haven't deposited. |
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Posted: Mon, 11 Aug 2008, 7:22pm Post subject:
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Straight
Joined: 04 Jun 2007
Posts: 249
WPP: 102
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| spoonitnow wrote: | | L_Clan_Sup3rMaN wrote: | | Haha...a LOT easier said than done. Looks so ez when its written on paper like that. |
If you could play 50k hands/month then you could do this in under a year easily. Then you''ll be able to sit down at a computer and make money whenever you want. That's a fun skill to have. |
Someone that CAN do this under a year shouldn't be doing this. 50k hands a month? Someone starting to play .01/.02 n learning the game etc and trying to move up etc, cant b multi-tabling like a maniac, getting 50k hands a month and still expect their game skill to go up. Think they are better off doing 2 tables or so. More tables is gonna equal losing more money. |
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Posted: Mon, 11 Aug 2008, 9:29pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 814
WPP: 147
Location: In #flopturnriver learning from better players
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| fwiw, L_Clan_Sup3rMan, I only started out on PS in mid April with a $50 deposit. On June 3rd I had $320 in my account and transitioned to cash (10nl) from SNGs. July 4th I started 25nl with $700 BR. July 29th I started 50nl with $1500 BR. Right now I'm sitting on ~$2100. So it is fairly achievable and if you put forth any decent amount of effort you will be able to do this is well under a year imo. I'm fairly sure I will be at 200nl by April or so next year, and I expect to make platinum either this month or next for sure. |
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Posted: Mon, 11 Aug 2008, 10:17pm Post subject:
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3-of-a-Kind
Joined: 01 Mar 2008
Posts: 107
WPP: 215
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| XxStacksxX wrote: | | fwiw, L_Clan_Sup3rMan, I only started out on PS in mid April with a $50 deposit. On June 3rd I had $320 in my account and transitioned to cash (10nl) from SNGs. July 4th I started 25nl with $700 BR. July 29th I started 50nl with $1500 BR. Right now I'm sitting on ~$2100. So it is fairly achievable and if you put forth any decent amount of effort you will be able to do this is well under a year imo. I'm fairly sure I will be at 200nl by April or so next year, and I expect to make platinum either this month or next for sure. |
How many hands have you played total / per month to do this? |
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Posted: Mon, 11 Aug 2008, 10:29pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 814
WPP: 147
Location: In #flopturnriver learning from better players
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| TonyB73 wrote: | | XxStacksxX wrote: | | fwiw, L_Clan_Sup3rMan, I only started out on PS in mid April with a $50 deposit. On June 3rd I had $320 in my account and transitioned to cash (10nl) from SNGs. July 4th I started 25nl with $700 BR. July 29th I started 50nl with $1500 BR. Right now I'm sitting on ~$2100. So it is fairly achievable and if you put forth any decent amount of effort you will be able to do this is well under a year imo. I'm fairly sure I will be at 200nl by April or so next year, and I expect to make platinum either this month or next for sure. |
How many hands have you played total / per month to do this? |
I don't know how many SNGs it took to get to $320, and I didn't have PT then anyways. But once I got to 10nl (BR $320) I put in 38k hands at 6.24ptbb/100 to get to 25nl. I moved up to 25nl 3 times before I stayed. I tried once when my roll was $500, then again at $580 and failed misterably both times. Moved up finally when roll was $700 and stayed. After getting to 25nl I played 32k at 3.94ptbb/100 before moving up to 50nl ($1500 BR, which is a little conservative).
Right now after 16k hands at 50nl at 3.48ptbb/100 I'm up $556 with a BR of $2150. So I have around 80k hands in my PT Database going from $320BR to $2100, in a matter of a little over 2 months. Keep in mind this is including Rakeback, which I get from grinding the 210fpp satellites on PS worth $11 per win (made about $160ish last month on RB alone and have round $100 this month already). |
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Posted: Tue, 12 Aug 2008, 3:51am Post subject:
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Straight
Joined: 04 Jun 2007
Posts: 249
WPP: 102
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| XxStacksxX wrote: | | fwiw, L_Clan_Sup3rMan, I only started out on PS in mid April with a $50 deposit. On June 3rd I had $320 in my account and transitioned to cash (10nl) from SNGs. July 4th I started 25nl with $700 BR. July 29th I started 50nl with $1500 BR. Right now I'm sitting on ~$2100. So it is fairly achievable and if you put forth any decent amount of effort you will be able to do this is well under a year imo. I'm fairly sure I will be at 200nl by April or so next year, and I expect to make platinum either this month or next for sure. |
Gratz on your achievement. To pull off something like that in about 2 months or so, you need to have certain poker skills you already have developed prior to doing this. Either that or you have an incredible learning curve.
It's completely possible for players who already know what they are doing to pull this off in a year (going from super micro to constant platinum). I was referring to total noobs who just started, as most people who start for the first time online are. Sure there are exceptions to that who have a strong live background n can do great online right off the bat, but thats not the case for most.
I just think a noobie trying to improve his game is better off not doing 40k hands a month but rather doing a lot less than that and spending the rest of the time studying/thinking on how he can improve and trying to implant that into his game. |
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Posted: Tue, 12 Aug 2008, 4:24am Post subject:
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One Pair
Joined: 22 May 2008
Posts: 23
WPP: 152
Location: U.K.
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| Thanks Spoon, that's the exact info I was looking for. |
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Posted: Tue, 12 Aug 2008, 6:06am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 2838
WPP: 106
Location: #flopturnriver
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| L_Clan_Sup3rMaN wrote: | | XxStacksxX wrote: | | fwiw, L_Clan_Sup3rMan, I only started out on PS in mid April with a $50 deposit. On June 3rd I had $320 in my account and transitioned to cash (10nl) from SNGs. July 4th I started 25nl with $700 BR. July 29th I started 50nl with $1500 BR. Right now I'm sitting on ~$2100. So it is fairly achievable and if you put forth any decent amount of effort you will be able to do this is well under a year imo. I'm fairly sure I will be at 200nl by April or so next year, and I expect to make platinum either this month or next for sure. |
Gratz on your achievement. To pull off something like that in about 2 months or so, you need to have certain poker skills you already have developed prior to doing this. Either that or you have an incredible learning curve.
It's completely possible for players who already know what they are doing to pull this off in a year (going from super micro to constant platinum). I was referring to total noobs who just started, as most people who start for the first time online are. Sure there are exceptions to that who have a strong live background n can do great online right off the bat, but thats not the case for most.
I just think a noobie trying to improve his game is better off not doing 40k hands a month but rather doing a lot less than that and spending the rest of the time studying/thinking on how he can improve and trying to implant that into his game. |
First off, 10k hands/week is nothing, even if you're like 4-6 tabling, which is fine for new players playing full ring, for example. Even 4-tabling 6-max would make this pretty easy imo, leaving plenty of time for pure study. Also keep in mind that I'm saying an average of 50k hands/month over the course of a year. Obviously you're not going to start off playing 50k/hands month in your first month of poker, but by the 12th you will probably be playing more if you're putting in the effort required to improve during that whole year. And really the 50k hands/month thing is arbitrary -- I'd say the minimum would be 30k hands/month.
This is also taking into consideration the fact that you're probably a losing player when you start playing 2nl. By the time you move up to the next level, you should have put forth enough effort at the level before that you will be +EV at that level. The difference in skill required to beat different micro and low stake levels is not very high.
| Quote: | | To pull off something like that in about 2 months or so, you need to have certain poker skills you already have developed prior to doing this. Either that or you have an incredible learning curve. |
It's really easy to write off people who come up through micro and low stakes quickly as "already being good" or whatever other excuse you could come up with, but the fact is people like Stacks have worked for it and put in the time and effort required to get better. Like you said, "someone that CAN do this under a year shouldn't be doing this," is just an excuse to yourself so that you have a reason not to put forth the effort required.
Learning to beat something like 50nl/100nl/200nl full ring isn't a damn college degree that requires years of work to achieve, and the sooner people like you start to realize that, the quicker you'll be able to rival the money you will make in a job with poker. It doesn't take "an incredible learning curve" to do, not to undermine the progress Stacks has made, but he's really just one of the few new people who actually do the things we tell everyone to do to get better instead of bitching and arguing every chance they get or making excuses about how other people can do this shit and they cannot. |
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Posted: Tue, 12 Aug 2008, 6:07am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 2838
WPP: 106
Location: #flopturnriver
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| Wndllll wrote: | | Thanks Spoon, that's the exact info I was looking for. |
No problem. I get asked this a lot so I figured I'd go ahead and write it out. |
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Posted: Tue, 12 Aug 2008, 6:21am Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 384
WPP: 90
Location: On Tony Romo's nuts
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| spoonitnow wrote: | | xptboy wrote: | I got a question:
I got 720$ in my PS BR, I'm interested in moving to FTP,
I have an account but have not deposited anything on it yet, is it possible to get the Bonus AND Rakeback? if so how?
(links to sites would be useful)
thx for advice btw |
If you already have an account that does not have Rakeback, then you can't get Rakeback. It doesn't matter if you haven't deposited. |
That's not true anymore. As long as your account isn't already tagged to an affiliate that doesn't offer Rakeback then you can get rb through the affiliate that FTP owns. |
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Posted: Tue, 12 Aug 2008, 6:32am Post subject:
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Straight
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 126
WPP: 133
Location: Brussels
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| pankfish wrote: | | spoonitnow wrote: | | xptboy wrote: | I got a question:
I got 720$ in my PS BR, I'm interested in moving to FTP,
I have an account but have not deposited anything on it yet, is it possible to get the Bonus AND Rakeback? if so how?
(links to sites would be useful)
thx for advice btw |
If you already have an account that does not have Rakeback, then you can't get Rakeback. It doesn't matter if you haven't deposited. |
That's not true anymore. As long as your account isn't already tagged to an affiliate that doesn't offer Rakeback then you can get rb through the affiliate that FTP owns. |
hUh?!?!
ok now I'm super confused... I was thinking of just creating a new account but now I dunno... |
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Posted: Tue, 12 Aug 2008, 9:50am Post subject:
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Straight
Joined: 27 May 2008
Posts: 236
WPP: 76
Location: StackedŽ
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Ya know, instead of pissin' and moanin' about the OP, you guys should be thanking Spoon for laying it for you. If you apply yourself, poker really is this easy. "Oh boo-hoo, it will take me a year to build up a bankroll." Well holy fucking Chris Ferguson. I just spent nearly my entire bankroll from the past few years on a new house. And now I'm back down playing $10 BI games and playing maybe 2500 hands per month. Do ya hear me bitchin?!
Poker is not about getting one big pay day as fast you as you can and then livin' it up. Everyone's impatient attitude towards poker is what lined my pockets for the past two years. If you want to make money with this game, follow this guide. It's simple and to the point and best of all you're getting FREE money with your RB and bonuses.
The only thing I would add is that once you get your FTP $600 Bonus, start experimenting with variations other than hold'em. It will only make you an all-around better poker player as well as better hold'em player. Plus, you'll then have enough BR to fuck around in the micros learning new games.
Now beat it. |
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Posted: Tue, 12 Aug 2008, 10:23am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 2838
WPP: 106
Location: #flopturnriver
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| pankfish wrote: | | spoonitnow wrote: | | xptboy wrote: | I got a question:
I got 720$ in my PS BR, I'm interested in moving to FTP,
I have an account but have not deposited anything on it yet, is it possible to get the Bonus AND Rakeback? if so how?
(links to sites would be useful)
thx for advice btw |
If you already have an account that does not have Rakeback, then you can't get Rakeback. It doesn't matter if you haven't deposited. |
That's not true anymore. As long as your account isn't already tagged to an affiliate that doesn't offer Rakeback then you can get rb through the affiliate that FTP owns. |
Now that's pretty damn cool. |
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Posted: Thu, 20 Nov 2008, 1:49am Post subject:
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Special freerolls for active members only!
