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Posted: Wed, 30 Jun 2004, 1:21pm Post subject: Questions... Comments...
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 1887
WPP: 103
Location: Kansas City
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These are 2 hands taken out of Caro's Book of Tells. (If you haven't read it, I recommend it) There is a twist at the end, so pay attention.
limit Holdem $75/$150
Player 9 is the Button
Player 1  
Player 2  
Player 3  
Player 4  
Player 5  
Player 6  
Player 7  
Player 8  
Player 9  
Player 1 posts small blind (50)
Player 2 posts big blind (75)
Player 3 raises to 150
player 4 folds
player 5 calls 150
player 6 raises to 225
player 7 folds
player 8 folds
player 9 folds
player 1 calls 225
player 2 folds
player 3 calls 225
Flop   
Player 1 checks
player 3 bets 75
player 5 calls 75
player 6 raises to 150
player 1 raises to 225
player 3 folds
player 5 calls 225
player 6 raises to 300
player 1 calls
player 5 calls
Turn 
Player 1 checks
player 5 bets 150
player 6 calls 150
player 1 raises to 300
player 5 raises to 450
player 6 calls 450
player 1 calls 450
River 
Player 1 checks
player 5 bets 150
player 6 raises 300
player 1 folds
player 5 calls 300
Showdown
Pot size: $3,900
Player 5 shows a straight 8-Q
Player 6 shows a full house 4s full of Ts
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limit Holdem $75/$150
Player 9 is the Button
Player 1
Player 2
Player 3
Player 4
Player 5
Player 6
Player 7
Player 8
Player 9
Player 1 posts small blind (50)
Player 2 posts big blind (75)
Player 3 raises to 150
Player 4 folds
player 5 folds
player 6 folds
player 7 calls 150
player 8 folds
player 9 folds
player 1 folds
player 2 calls
flop
player 2 checks
player 3 checks
player 8 checks
turn
player 2 checks
player 3 bets 150
player 8 calls 150
player 2 folds
river
player 3 checks
player 7 bets 150
player 3 folds
Player 8 wins $950
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This is not fake or hyothesized. These hands really happened with real people playing. Even more amazing is that the people did not change. 1 hand was played hours after the first hand, but they were played by the same people in the same position.
I've wanted to do this to see the results. Caro did it for me. I found this very interesting. Not only does the winner change, the people who see the flop change, the pot size changes, the showdown changes. It's not slightly different, it's DRASTICALLY different. |
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Posted: Wed, 30 Jun 2004, 1:29pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 04 Feb 2004
Posts: 1112
WPP: 114
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Hey Humpy -
I'm not trying to be a dick here, but do you honestly believe that the exact same hand was dealt to the exact same players in the exact same position with the exact same board all within the exact same hand? Do you know what the probability of that happening has to be? I'd say astronomical.
Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding, and if I am I sincerely apologize. However, I highly doubt that this ever truly occurred. It had to be being used as some sort of example by Caro. |
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Posted: Wed, 30 Jun 2004, 1:36pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 1887
WPP: 103
Location: Kansas City
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| jmrogers7 wrote: | Hey Humpy -
I'm not trying to be a dick here, but do you honestly believe that the exact same hand was dealt to the exact same players in the exact same position with the exact same board all within the exact same hand? Do you know what the probability of that happening has to be? I'd say astronomical.
Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding, and if I am I sincerely apologize. However, I highly doubt that this ever truly occurred. It had to be being used as some sort of example by Caro. |
It was a set-up. I'm sure Caro had stacked decks, and had no part in the hand. It would practically never happen in real life. More of a science experiment with a lesson than just something amazing.
It was set up as an example, to show how different 2 hands can be, even when so many things are the same. |
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Posted: Wed, 30 Jun 2004, 3:19pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 18 Jun 2004
Posts: 1720
WPP: 297
Location: Rochester Hills, MI
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| Very interesting. What seemed to change it preflop is the pocket 4s folded instead of reraising last time (which scared the JT out of the first even though he won the 2nd). And the players were all around more aggressive on the first hand. |
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Posted: Thu, 15 Jul 2004, 9:11am Post subject:
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3-of-a-Kind
Joined: 15 Jul 2004
Posts: 51
WPP: 324
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| Humphrind wrote: |
It was set up as an example, to show how different 2 hands can be, even when so many things are the same. |
Agreed - this never actually happened, Caro was just making the point that no player is ever truly "predictable" in their actions, behaving differently each time the cards are dealt, even when (hypothetically) in the exact same situation they have already been in. The idea being to convince yu that this is why you need his book about tells, as knowing how a player is likely to behave isn't as useful as knowing how they are behaving in this hand.
7ape
“I stayed up all night playing poker with Tarot cards. I got a full house and four people died.” |
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Posted: Thu, 15 Jul 2004, 1:24pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 18 Jun 2004
Posts: 1720
WPP: 297
Location: Rochester Hills, MI
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| That's not what Humphrind was saying. He was saying that Caro set up an experiment, where people got dealt the same hand twice in one session (with probably hours seperating them), to see how they'd react differently the second time playing it. |
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Posted: Thu, 15 Jul 2004, 2:39pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 1887
WPP: 103
Location: Kansas City
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| michael1123 wrote: | | That's not what Humphrind was saying. He was saying that Caro set up an experiment, where people got dealt the same hand twice in one session (with probably hours seperating them), to see how they'd react differently the second time playing it. |
Now I don't know what to believe. I was 100% sure that he said this was real and it happened. (he set it up and forced it to happen, but it happened.)
Then in his audio clips that I listened to, he cited it again and said, this could really happen when players play this in imaginary parallel universes. I'm going to grab my copy of Caro's Book of Tells when I get home and look this up to see if he really said it happened or not.
I will stick with this. This really could happen (I don't know if it did) but don't worry about it. Look at what it shows, not how it happened. It shows why it's important to look at the players reaction to the action rather than the player himself or the cards he could be playing. Look at their moods. What people will play in 1 hand, they won't play in another. It's true.
How many J8s have you thrown away in middle position?
How many J8s have you played in middle position?
There is no set way to play a hand, it's all conditional.
These hands could be used as an arguement for assuming other players have ANYTHING and not putting them on a hand. What people chose to play in hand 1, they chose not to play in hand 2 and vice versa. |
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Posted: Thu, 15 Jul 2004, 3:03pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 18 Jun 2004
Posts: 1720
WPP: 297
Location: Rochester Hills, MI
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| I don't think I've ever played J8s in middle position, haha. A2s would be a better example for me. |
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