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Posted: Sun, 27 Jan 2008, 1:12pm Post subject: QQ - Ace flops
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Flush
Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 328
WPP: 137
Location: Norfolk, UK.
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Should I be re-raising this flop as played or shut down completely?
PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (8 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Preflop: Hero is SB with Q , Q .
UTG calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG calls, MP2 calls.
Flop: (8 SB) 4, A , 7 (4 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG bets, MP2 folds, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG calls.
Turn: (7 BB) K (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks.
River: (7 BB) 8 (3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, UTG calls, Hero calls.
Final Pot: 10 BB |
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Posted: Sun, 27 Jan 2008, 2:58pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 16 Sep 2005
Posts: 769
WPP: 151
Location: Moscow, Idaho
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Posted: Sun, 27 Jan 2008, 3:28pm Post subject:
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Straight
Joined: 13 Mar 2007
Posts: 206
WPP: 117
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| yah bet the flop, but as played I would fold river, you have a bet and call infront of you with two overs. |
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Posted: Sun, 27 Jan 2008, 3:44pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 711
WPP: 135
Location: UK
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Flop is ugly but you have to bet. Probably fold to a raise. Once K comes on the turn you can switch your attention to another table because you are done with this hand.
River overcall is making me want to cry. You have to fold this, no question. |
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Posted: Sun, 27 Jan 2008, 4:44pm Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 328
WPP: 137
Location: Norfolk, UK.
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Yeah I totally butchered that hand 
Here's another later, similar sort of flop with QQ, played far more aggressively on the flop - if he caps we know we're beat right?
PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (9 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Preflop: Hero is SB with Q, Q.
6 folds, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, Button calls.
Flop: (7 SB) K, 8, 9 (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, Button folds.
Final Pot: 5.5 BB |
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Posted: Sun, 27 Jan 2008, 5:26pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 711
WPP: 135
Location: UK
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| Against passive opponent who will only cap with a K, I like the flop 3bet. Against guys who will raise a gutshot, A9, FD, etc. I call the flop raise and c/r the turn. Then you can fold to a 3bet but otherwise it's valuetown. |
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Posted: Mon, 28 Jan 2008, 3:17pm Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 07 Aug 2007
Posts: 270
WPP: 82
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| Ragnar4 wrote: | | Hero bets out Flop |
Why bet *if* you're confident that you can get in the check-raise? Obviously you don't want to give a free card. Also, if it comes back to you 2 bets you can probably get out.
Is the idea that a hand that beats you already (Ax or KK or a set) will probably raise you on the flop? I'm so used to the large number of people who slow play even AA to the turn that I discount the lack of flop action. |
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Posted: Mon, 28 Jan 2008, 3:35pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 711
WPP: 135
Location: UK
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On this flop you're betting out because you're hoping that your preflop raise and the Ace on board will make anyone without an Ace fold. Given the absence of draws on the flop, if you get called you should be trying to get to showdown cheaply if it's HU, or more likely folding if it's multiway.
Checking the flop is tantamount to saying 'i don't have an Ace'. Check-raising the flop is saying 'i have a big Ace' when you don't. If you're going to c/r the flop, you need to bet the turn no matter what and hope villian was just taking a stab at it with a smaller pp. Once you're cold called by the BB on the flop, AND the K comes, forget it. You're not winning this one. |
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Posted: Thu, 31 Jan 2008, 2:25pm Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 07 Aug 2007
Posts: 270
WPP: 82
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| DrivingDog wrote: | | Checking the flop is tantamount to saying 'i don't have an Ace'. Check-raising the flop is saying 'i have a big Ace' when you don't. If you're going to c/r the flop, you need to bet the turn no matter what and hope villian was just taking a stab at it with a smaller pp. Once you're cold called by the BB on the flop, AND the K comes, forget it. You're not winning this one. |
Well, my first thought here is that I *like* saying "I have a big Ace" in the hopes of getting a King to fold, or in rare cases getting a weak Ace to fold. Yes you do need to bet the turn after the flop c/r, especially a turn King to say "I don't care if you have a King." Spew? |
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Posted: Fri, 01 Feb 2008, 5:32am Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 711
WPP: 135
Location: UK
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| Hermann the Lombard wrote: |
Well, my first thought here is that I *like* saying "I have a big Ace" in the hopes of getting a King to fold, or in rare cases getting a weak Ace to fold. Yes you do need to bet the turn after the flop c/r, especially a turn King to say "I don't care if you have a King." Spew? |
Yeah a bit. We bet out the flop because we were the preflop aggressor and to find out where our second pair is at. It should be enough to get a King to fold. Nothing is getting an Ace to fold. So bet and usually fold to a raise. If we get called on the flop, just go into c/c mode or fold to a turn bet, depending on reads. Usually the latter.
Check-raising should never be done as a bluff into multiple opponents. Pound a mutliway pot with your strong hands, not your mediocre ones. |
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Posted: Fri, 01 Feb 2008, 7:49am Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 16 Sep 2005
Posts: 769
WPP: 151
Location: Moscow, Idaho
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| The reason the hero bets the flop instead of CR'ing is because A) he can fold to a re-raise. B) It would really suck to give a freecard C) checking here waves a big flag saying "I don't have AK, and the subsequent raise will 9 times out of 10 cause your opponent to hunkerdown and go into check/call mode. It's really odd, you say: I check raise, and your opponent thinks... Guess I better call down with my top pair crap kicker. When that same opponent would get scared to a lead out bet. |
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Posted: Tue, 05 Feb 2008, 3:43pm Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 20 Aug 2007
Posts: 263
WPP: 106
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| I suck at playing queens for the reasons displayed in this hand. Jacks are more profitable for me because they are that much easier to get away from. |
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