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Posted: Sat, 29 Dec 2007, 4:45pm Post subject: PT one pair hands
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Full House
Joined: 30 May 2006
Posts: 1370
WPP: 234
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| Go to miscellaneous stats. One pair hands should be in the green right? Where should they be relative to other hand types? |
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Posted: Sat, 29 Dec 2007, 7:47pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 3392
WPP: 82
Location: the ether
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nope. Red. I think (correct me if i'm wrong) that PT combines your starting cards with the board, regardless of whether you see the flop, fold pre, fold river etc. You'll probably see about half of your hands as "1 pr", so half of those blinds you fold, a big chunk of those pre-flop raises that you fold to the flop, etc are losing you money under the "1pr" label. And if you are playing pairs on the flop then a lot of the time your pair improves by the time the river comes.
If I sort by winnings, the hand rankings are:
1) Three of a kind
2) Full House
3) Straight
4) Flush
5) Quads
6) Royal flush
7) Straight flush
8) Two pair
9) High card
10) 1 pair
straight flush and down are all losing (both straight flush hands I folded pre-flop)
edit: check the % of Total Hands field + I think this only includes hands where a flop occurred (not sure about this tho) |
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Posted: Sat, 29 Dec 2007, 8:19pm Post subject:
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Almost as bad as that idiot redgrape
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 6593
WPP: 74
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| one pair should be red unless you are incredible |
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Posted: Sat, 29 Dec 2007, 11:31pm Post subject:
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Straight Flush
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 4209
WPP: 150
Location: St. Louis, MO
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interesting. mine run...3 of a kind, boats, straights, flushes, str8flush, quad, two pair, pair, high card. something like that.
care to explain, though, what this should be telling me? |
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Posted: Sun, 30 Dec 2007, 3:15am Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 30 May 2006
Posts: 1370
WPP: 234
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| I didn't notice that PT accounts for hands 'made' after you fold. Which is fucking retarded. I do think that 1p should be green if it's only hands you actually make, but I still do not know. |
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Posted: Sun, 30 Dec 2007, 9:39am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 2570
WPP: 145
Location: GA
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| wufwugy wrote: | | I didn't notice that PT accounts for hands 'made' after you fold. Which is fucking retarded. I do think that 1p should be green if it's only hands you actually make, but I still do not know. |
There is a check box in top right, in the bar above this window, for "show only hands that were not folded."
My database filters to 1.8k of 44k hands, with top earning hands being sets, boats, two pair, flush, straight, one pair. My one pair is green, but just barely. But I was filtered to look only at NL10. Probably different at higher levels where Iowa hangs out. |
Last edited by Robb on Sun, 30 Dec 2007, 10:12am; edited 2 times in total
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Posted: Sun, 30 Dec 2007, 10:11am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 2570
WPP: 145
Location: GA
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| IowaSkinsFan wrote: | | one pair should be red unless you are incredible |
UNLESS...
1. You've been lucky
2. You're playing at donkstakes (like me  )
3. You're database is small
At NL10, I think it's possible to run slightly positive with one pair only because people stack off with air so often. |
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Posted: Sun, 30 Dec 2007, 11:41am Post subject:
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Straight Flush
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 4209
WPP: 150
Location: St. Louis, MO
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still confused as to what this all indicates. i mean, we all know that sets should win you more hands/money than one pair hands. i dont see the fuss.
unless, someone cares to explain the significance. |
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Posted: Sun, 30 Dec 2007, 1:41pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 2570
WPP: 145
Location: GA
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| Chopper wrote: | still confused as to what this all indicates. i mean, we all know that sets should win you more hands/money than one pair hands. i dont see the fuss.
unless, someone cares to explain the significance. |
I use it (infrequently) for the following purposes.
1. It helps you understand where the profits in your game come from. For example, the vast majority of profits come from sets - they're the easiest to make on the flop. The second most come from full houses which often happen when you flop a set and the board pairs on the turn or river. So...pp's are the most profitable hand types. Big draws to straights and flushes also pay well, but they hit less often. We can sort based on how the hand finished and watch hand replays, see how these hands go against various villains from various positions.
2. As a newbie, I often worried about betting sets when the board flushed or straightened. As it happens, sets hold up about 80% of the time while straights hold up only about 75%. So we should be betting them, even when other big hands seem to be out there.
3. Should we bet the idiot end of a straight? Maybe, in certain situations, it's a good idea. Straights are big hands and are hard to hit, so if the board has only 3 cards in a given straight range, and you've made it, you should probably bet it and take the chance the villain does NOT have the higher straight.
4. Flushes hold up really well, when you make them (87%). As a newbie, I often worried about flush under flush when I had 65s and hit my hand. Now, I'm betting them regardless of reads. If I get stacked, so be it.
5. Oddly, full houses hold up less well than flushes and only slightly better than sets, obviously because of simplicity of holding big unpaired cards and hitting trips as someone hits their boat (holding small pp that flopped a set). Then...the other card pairs the board, and you've got the higher full house. These situations are fairly easy to avoid, since uncoordinated boards don't leave villains with lots of ways to out-boat us, but with pocket 3's I am worried about a A Q 3 flop with a Q on the turn. Two other full houses are possible (plus the quad Q's - ouch), and I can be drawing dead or to the case 3 if I'm not careful, here.
These are just some general observations about NLH based on what I'm seeing from my database. The above points confirm what Phil Gordon says in one of his books: "The average winning hand in Holdem is 2 pair." I use that rule of thumb to guide turn/river betting. If you don't have something that can beat TPTK, why are you still betting the turn? Sure, there are valid reasons to bet/call/rr the turn and river with less than 2 pair. Total donkfish villains excepted, expecting to win without improving should not be one of them. |
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Posted: Sun, 30 Dec 2007, 6:50pm Post subject:
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Straight Flush
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 4209
WPP: 150
Location: St. Louis, MO
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thank you, and interesting. point 4 struck me right in the mouth. although, recently, i've taken a much more aggro line, too.
i still think most all of what PT is telling you here, though, "depends." if i have the sucker-end, for example, and i bet out and get pushed over? i dont know if i call as a default. obv, depends on if its a 3 str8 or 4 str8, among other factors.
still interesting. thanks for the details. |
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Posted: Mon, 31 Dec 2007, 3:58pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 30 May 2006
Posts: 1370
WPP: 234
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| Robb wrote: | | wufwugy wrote: | | I didn't notice that PT accounts for hands 'made' after you fold. Which is fucking retarded. I do think that 1p should be green if it's only hands you actually make, but I still do not know. |
There is a check box in top right, in the bar above this window, for "show only hands that were not folded."
My database filters to 1.8k of 44k hands, with top earning hands being sets, boats, two pair, flush, straight, one pair. My one pair is green, but just barely. But I was filtered to look only at NL10. Probably different at higher levels where Iowa hangs out. |
This does have its purpose, but it's still not what I want. There's more hands than just hands that saw showdown and hands that were 'made' after folding. |
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Posted: Mon, 31 Dec 2007, 4:06pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 30 May 2006
Posts: 1370
WPP: 234
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| Actually, I believe it to be likely that once the box is checked then 1p hands should win more than anything else. The biggest winners are AA KK QQ AK stuff. I have one 50k hand database (where I ran below expectation, yet played better than other stretches) where this is the case. However, I have another 50k database where I played worse/ran better and made more from sets than 1p hands. I think it boils down to play, though. |
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Posted: Mon, 31 Dec 2007, 7:59pm Post subject:
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{NSFW - nipple}
Joined: 11 Jun 2005
Posts: 2186
WPP: 107
Location: The Loser's Lounge
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| IowaSkinsFan wrote: | | one pair should be red unless you are incredible |
I am incredible, but alas, my one pair hands are also in the red. |
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Restricted FTR $200 Freeroll at FullTilt on November 23rd
