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Posted: Tue, 06 Mar 2007, 6:40pm Post subject: problems with Q's
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Two Pair
Joined: 18 Dec 2006
Posts: 28
WPP: 54
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what I would like here are comments on how the hand was played on every street. negative comments are welcome but if you do bash me please say why and a solution.
I don't have a lot of info on the villan as I only have 47 hands against him.
his stats are 14/10/47.
the hand went like this.
Full Tilt Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $1/$2
9 players
Converter
Stack sizes:
UTG: $43.25
UTG+1: $53.25
MP1: $84.75
MP2: $17.25
MP3: $48.50
CO: $57.50
Button: $42.25
SB: $65.75
Hero: $95
Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is BB with  
7 folds, SB calls, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, Hero caps, SB calls.
Flop:    (6SB, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.
Turn:  (4BB, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, Hero calls.
River:  (8BB, 2 players)
SB bets
is my preflop play here good? was it a good move to cap it preflop? and what about the other streets? Is there another way I could of played this. |
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Posted: Wed, 07 Mar 2007, 2:12am Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 15 Oct 2004
Posts: 666
WPP: 95
Location: Decatur, IL
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| Capping preflop is definately good in position vs somebody with a 10 PFR. Once he calls the flop bet, I see no reason at all to bet the turn. You are very likely behind here and the hands you have beat, probably don't call the turn bet, but might bluff the river. I would check through the turn and call the river unimproved. |
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Posted: Wed, 07 Mar 2007, 2:15am Post subject:
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Straight Flush
Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 6999
WPP: 71
Location: Pwnsylvania
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| Your hand can stand a 3bet here so I r/c. I wouldn't cap a 3bet on the river. It could very well be a poorly played AsAx. |
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Posted: Sat, 24 Mar 2007, 2:39pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 16 Apr 2005
Posts: 949
WPP: 56
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PF: Good
F: Good
T: Good, but only because you now have a flush draw
R: I'd raise. |
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Posted: Sat, 24 Mar 2007, 2:50pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 3603
WPP: 99
Location: Your place or my place
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Posted: Thu, 29 Mar 2007, 12:55pm Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 283
WPP: 234
Location: Kennedy Space Center, FL
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| outphase wrote: | PF: Good
F: Good
T: Good, but only because you now have a flush draw
R: I'd raise. |
I don't like the turn either. True you have a flush draw. But what makes us think the Q-high flush has good equity. He 3-bet preflop. And not only that, but smooth call/3-bet smells really bad. I'm thinking he has a big hand (AA or KK) and didn't want to waist it by chasing out his last hope of taking down a decent pot with an open raise. But in any event, I'll give him credit for AQ+ & TT+ (maybe AJ or 99,88 but that doesn't change the situation all that much).
The fact that he c/c the flop after the preflop action and worries me. I capped it so you expects me to bet the flop too. This really really smells like a big hand. I seriously doubt TT & JJ are slow playing the flop here. A donk might with AK. I think the fact that he c/c the flop worries me. He either has us beat or is on a high flush draw, or maybe called with only one over (A) because he feels committed. I think he probably holds the A or K of spades if he is on the flush draw.
Personally, it really smells like AA or KK (maybe AK). I lean towards check/calling it down after the flop call. But now I definitely want to after the turn card. I think we are way behind more often than not.
Making trips helps, but I'm still worried about KK or the flush. I'm making a crying call on the turn and river.
I don't think raising the river buys us anything. We are going to get popped with a 3-bet by a better hand. I don't think we bet enough hands to make it worth the risk. |
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Posted: Fri, 30 Mar 2007, 2:42am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 3603
WPP: 99
Location: Your place or my place
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| We gotta raise the river. AA calls, AK calls. No reason to be scared of that flush card. |
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Posted: Fri, 30 Mar 2007, 12:13pm Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 283
WPP: 234
Location: Kennedy Space Center, FL
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| euphoricism wrote: | | We gotta raise the river. AA calls, AK calls. No reason to be scared of that flush card. |
Well, I guess you have a point.
With his line, call me "Mr. Too-Much-Credit" but I am thinking opp has AA, KK, AK for the most part.
Statistically speaking that would be AA 22% KK 22% AK 56%. But his line has me leaning even more towards AA or KK. So I move those numbers to AA 30%, KK 25%, AK 45%.
Excluding the flush possibility, we are looking at:
- AA 30% of the time. opp could call or 3-bet our river raise, either way we win. ~ +1.5bb value from river raise.
- KK 25% of the time opp will definitely 3-bet us. -2.0bb from river raise.
- AK 45% of the time opp would probably just call the river raise. ~ +1.2bb value from river raise.
TOTALS: +0.49bb
I'm still kind of worried about the flush because on the rare occasion that it does happen, it is definitely going to cause us two more bb than if we would have just called. But you are probably right, it's not going to happen often enough to turn the river raise into -EV. |
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Posted: Fri, 30 Mar 2007, 1:01pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 3603
WPP: 99
Location: Your place or my place
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Meh more i think about it the more I'm not sure. AA tends to go to war on the flop. I'd be very surprised to see AA here. AK tends toward the turn c/r if that (probably more of a c/c c/c b line) Random suited AQ, AJ, Ax's c/r the turn.
Man... I'm still saying we gotta raise here, because if you dont raise with second set in LHE youre leaving money on the table, but I'm with you on really feeling beat.
just check through the goddamned turn |
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Posted: Fri, 30 Mar 2007, 9:43pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 1968
WPP: 96
Location: 6max limit tables
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| if he has a 10% PFR his hand range is so tight... i think i bet flop check behind turn... as for the river if he leads after i check (which must likely will happen regardless what he holds) you have to ask yourself what can he 3bet/call cap PF with then call bet on the flop with... AK, AQs(in spades obv), AJs (same here), 99-JJ unless you can think of something else... you beat all those hands except 2... i think i put in a raise if he 3 bets call... |
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Posted: Sat, 31 Mar 2007, 1:16pm Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 283
WPP: 234
Location: Kennedy Space Center, FL
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| pokerfanatic wrote: | | if he has a 10% PFR his hand range is so tight... i think i bet flop check behind turn... as for the river if he leads after i check (which must likely will happen regardless what he holds) you have to ask yourself what can he 3bet/call cap PF with then call bet on the flop with... AK, AQs(in spades obv), AJs (same here), 99-JJ unless you can think of something else... you beat all those hands except 2... i think i put in a raise if he 3 bets call... |
Well, I think I'm mixing two different lines with my thought.
They way it was played, with the preflop action, c/c the flop, and c/r the turn, I am hesitant about raising the river (although it seems it might be slightly correct to do so).
But if we played the turn the way we all feel it should have been played (check behind). Then we don't have the additonal info about our opp that the turn c/r is trying to tell us. So, fanatic, I agree... in that light I would probably put him on a similar hand range and would think we have to raise the river.
but if we bet the turn like the OP did and got check raised, I'm more worried that you slowplayed a big hand on the flop to pop us on the turn.
Anyway.... good to see you coming back around, fanatic. |
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Posted: Sun, 01 Apr 2007, 4:27pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 1968
WPP: 96
Location: 6max limit tables
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to shay... great point...
I think really we are talking like 0.25bb on average gain or save something like that… so it important to think about in a long run situation given limit has gotten slightly tighter at the higher levels the slight +EV things you can do will help…
Yea, I disappeared for awhile I had some real personal things going on trying to deal with life problems can be a pain in the ass... |
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Full Tilt Poker FTOPS XIV - Event 22 $2500+$120 NLH 2 Day
