Isolate, or Bring Another Player Along?

I'm at work, and don't have the whole hand to post. This is in a 3-Table SNG. We're down to half the field and blinds are 25/50. I have 1500 chips. But here's the gist:

I get KK in Early Position and raise to 175.
One guy in Middle Position calls me. He has 3000 chips.
The short stack in the SB goes all-in for around 350.
I re-raise all-in and MP folds.
He has 99, but hits a set and wins the pot to double up.

The question: Should I have let MP play?
At the time I didn't even consider NOT pushing to get MP out of the pot. KK is going to get beat sometimes, but it's not likely to wind up the worst hand out of 3. Did I miss an opportunity to get some chips (or lose less chips) with KK?

Nice Play, I do the same.

The more people that are in the hand, the lower the % chance you have of winning the hand. Isolate that shit.

In theory I agree with the other replies.... you don't want to use KK 3-way if you don't have to. This kind of situation is unique though... with a big enough side pot it's almost like two individual heads up matches. I don't know if this is a good way to approach it... but set aside 350 of your 1500 stack and consider that in play against the small stack. Now you have 1150 left with a great hand (KK) to go against a bigger stack. I'd be tempted to raise to 600 and see if you can get the other guy to join you. If they were both bigger stacks then it's a clear push... in this situation I don't know if it's that clear cut.

Either that or I'm crazy... that's possible too.

Darkwing

*Last edited by Sed on Wed, 04 May 2005, 1:37pm; edited 1 time in total*

Then you lose chips which is why the percentage of your stack comes in, if it is 5% that isn't a big deal if you lose it in an attempt to double up. Its a gamble, I'll admit it. You are the favorite vs all but one hand preflop and the {enter correct # here}% when they don't flop an A you can bet strong.

I agree with isolating 99% of the times but, if the amount you stand to win with your premium hand by isolating isn't substantial to your stack, I think letting someone else in is worth the risk In an SnG you will only get 1-2 hands this good. In a huge MTT it may be more important to accumulate without risk so isolation is more important.

-sed

I'm with Aces, your 'this good' hand is now worthless on the A high flop, you may even get bluffed out by QQ or something.

Plus what are you going to do if the flop is suited, connected or comes QJJ and the guy bets at you?

He's picking up what, 600 chips here? That's 25 % of his stack, be happy.

Move in.

You can win 500 chips that weren't yours, i would just push. Take it down when the pot is this big.

Interesting points on both sides. Thanks.

Given the the same circumstance, I would probably play it the same way again. But it's something to chew on for awhile.

When I have a lingering "If only I had..." about a specific hand, I sometimes discover that I'm being too results oriented. I get caught up in what I could have done to potentially make that particular result more positive for me, rather than focusing on what is the best long-run strategy. When I'm considering what is strategically the best play, I love getting feedback from this forum.

I think the play was fine, and was the best way to maximize my chance to win the hand and some chips. But I am intrigued by DWDuck's point too.

So let me ask:
If I had AA would it change anything for anyone?

I would probably call with AA.

In this case I would isolate by pushing, if it was a smaller percentage of my stack (<10% or so), I wouldn't. I just think that it is an interesting situation to argue if isolating someone with a monster is correct every time...

- sed

Things like this have been biting me in the ass lately, trying to "squeeze just a few more chips" out, and then having someone hit, but I still stand by it.

The small stack just went all in on you, but it ain't that many chips. Reraise it a little bit, but not all in. Try to get the guy to come in with you. You've got KK! reraise to half your stack or something.

My problem with the slow play is I think you're giving the implied odds here - unles you're really lucky and you both get over pairs, you are not going to win any money from the other stack - i.e. if he has AQ and the flop comes 10 4 2, he's not putting more money in the pot. unless he hits top pair he's going to fold to any aggresion from you.

It's the old 'more likely to win small pots and lose big pots' with KK AA. You're going to struggle to lay it down however awful the board looks for your hand. Maybe the difference here is you're OK laying down the big pairs after that 987s board hits and you have none of it. Me I'd rather make my opp make a tough decision with his A high or PP or sc than have to make one myself after the flop.

With AA I'm still re-raising, but this might be a nice time to min raise rather than move in.

'I say pretend this is back-to-back hands that you are dealt KK. '

OK - if I raise with KK and get re-raised, I'm moving in. Smile

I think you're over valuing KK. Why does it seem like you should be able to win more with it? Pre flop it's a great hand, at the river it's just one pair.

I like your logic DW, If (when) I hit this situation i'll be trying for both

Your ahead; maximise the chips you can win. Hollywood around 10 seconds then just call.

If the flop comes A-high, Bet out a feeler bet around 250 to rep the ace, if the MP raises back then let it go and accept your place as a shortstack.

If you set the flop, bet out, possibly all in based on your reads of the MP player and how willing he is to call.

Any SERIOUS danger on the flop, eg. monotone, three broadway to a straight etc. then push all in.

Any other flop check it regardless, let him bet and you can see where your at in the hand.

Thats what I would do anyway.

Edit: Betting out the flop on a set will show him nothing but your fear that your hand may no longer be good; he may even raise you with any PP or A-high.

I want that guy to get more money in before the flop if I can.

We don't disagree here, but I don't understand what you're saying - maybe I'm confused as to your plan... I thought we were talking about smooth calling pre flop. My whole point was that pre flop you almost surely have the best hand, get the money in then, rather than waiting until after the flop when there are lots of ways you can be beat. If the guys a maniac and you know he'll re raise a min raise or something, great. But with the stacks here there isn't a lot of play left, any raise besides AI and you're almost forcing him to call because he'll be getting huge pot odds. HE doesn't know you have KK.

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Isolate, or Bring Another Player Along?