Raising with Premium Hands in a 10 player NL Ring Game

Hi,

I just want to know what amounts others are raising with the top 4 hands when they play at Party? Specifically I am talking about the 10 player NL ring games with 0.25/0.50 blinds. I went through a really bad run there last week where my pocket aces and kings got cracked prolly about 75% of the time. It was getting so bad that I was feeling sick when I got AA because I knew I would lose my stack!

Anyways the top 4 hands that I would raise big on are AA, KK, QQ, JJ. I am not as big of a fan of AK even suited and would prefer to just raise it a little (to eliminate the real junk hands) and see if my pair hits on the flop before I get too crazy with the betting. Basically I prefer a made pair pre-flop.

Getting back to the raising thing on what I consider the top 4 hands....the way I look at it now JJ and QQ have to be raised big because they are so vulnerable to A-rag or KQ AQ etc. I am now raising them typically 6 X the BB or $3.00. Now this means that half the time I just collect the blinds but the way I'm looking at it these days I'd rather do that than lose $15.00 - $25.00. The other half the time I get 1 or maybe 2 callers and as long as the flop looks good I will push in or make a big test bet.

Basically this is now my theory for JJ QQ & KK because they can be beaten too much of the time to not raise most of the people out of the pot. With AA I will take my chances and raise anywhere from 3-6 times the BB depending on my position and the amount of betting before I act.

So I'm just wondering what others do in a 10 table NL ring game? Comments would be appreciated. Basically since I started raising higher amounts I have won uncontested half the time and the other half had at least 1 caller and taken down the pot prolly 75% of those times so I think my new system while very conservative has eliminated a lot of tough beats that I was taking from the crazy fish.

J.C.

Here's my thoughts.

1st off, anytime I raise before the flop, it's the same amount. You don't want to give out info with your raise amount, so you raise the same amount for AA that you would for AJ. It's just a question of WHEN you raise (obviously, I don't do a lot of raising with AJ...but when I do I represent the same strength as if I had AA.....what hand I really have is my opponents problem, not mine).

As for what that amount is, I usually go for $2.00 or $2.50...$3.00 is a little high IMO, but not way out of line. I find $2.00 gets more callers and yet still denies proper implied odds on baby pocket pairs and "any ace" hands.

As far as WHEN I raise with certain hands....I don't raise JJ from the front. Many people do, but I only raise it from mid-position or late position. JJ is a frustrating hand...you usually see at least one overcard on the flop, so you don't really know where you're at post flop a lot of the time....and being out of position just makes things worse.

I usually raise AA/KK/QQ from all positions, and by the same amount. EXCEPTION: AA/KK will sometimes limp in from the front, with the hopes of somebody else doing the raising after me. Then I can flat call the raise and try to trap, or re-raise and often get callers because I've hidden the strength of my hand somewhat. A good tactic on an aggressive pre-flop table, a lousy tactic on a passive one.

JC - You've touched on a subject that I fight with constantly. Especially with JJ which, along with TT, are the 2 hands that I absolutely hate the most.

I went through a spell where I would get my JJ (and TT) busted no matter what I did preflop to try to limit the field. After that I even went so far as to limp in with both of those hands for a while until I regained my composure for those 2 hands. Now, the way I usually play both of them id to raise the pot pretty much as I would if I had KK or AA. Typically 4-8x the BB. Of course, like everything else, it is a matter of the action before I act and the table type.

However, hands like TT, JJ and even QQ to some extent are simply to vulnerable to an unfavorable flop to not try to get the field down to at most 2 callers. You have to raise the junk out of the hand preflop with these 3 hands.

Now as for KK and AA, I like to mix things up. I will typically raise 4-8x the BB but given the correct table and circumstances I am not averse to limping in with these hands once in a great while and seeing what might happen. Yes, I've been burned doing this. But I've also had a couple very nice pots doing this as well. I think that KK and AA are strong enough on their own to attempt this every once in a while.

That being said though, I will still raise the pot preflop 4-8x the BB 90% - 95% of the time as opposed to trying to be deceptive and limp.

Did I mention that i hate TT and JJ? Mad

I used to do a standard raise of $2.00 or 4XBB but that was what was getting me in trouble. The loose players/fish at Party would automatically call that with a small pocket pair or K10 or K7 or A2 or whatever.....all they needed was one overcard. Too often I'd get the best hand busted out with that raise.....so my new theory is that if too many are going to call with a 4xBB raise then depending on the situation and my position I'm going to raise it 6xBB and if they still call with their crap then at least I'm a huge favorite and there will usually be only 1 caller instead of 2, 3, or 4.

One really bad beat I remember I had KK and raised it up to $2.00. Some fishy calls with QJ offsuit (i wouldn't call $1.00 raise with that) flop comes 6 9 2 rainbow and things look good so I don't mess around and push in hoping he caught something on this flop. He goes all in too and catches a running Queens on the turn and river to hit trips! I was livid! I'm like "how can you call a $15.00 all in raise with nothing?" Oh well I guess long run guys like that pay you off big time but that one really hurt.

I've noticed this on several people, myself included.

You get your rockets, or cowboys and you get more nervous than excited.

I lost a good deal online last night when my KK got busted by an A5o. He caught his ace and paid no attention to my raising. My thoughts after the hand was over, "I need to raise more pre-flop." Different rooms have different people. You will get UTG calling a 5xBB with J3 in 1 room, where you will get Button folding a 2XBB with QTo in another room.

However, if you play strong, you will win the pot. If you just win the blinds, think of it as a success. It is successful. You've just won. Raise big, hope for callers and don't stop studying the flop.

I will almost always raise to $2 on the PP NL25 tables, except maybe in LP or in the blinds with lots of limpers, where I sometimes raise to 3 or 4. You might want to try sometimes limping AA and KK in EP and hoping someone raises behind you. Then you can reraise (I'd probably push or make a huge raise if there were a lot of callers), or if it looks like it's going to be heads-up, you can smooth call to try to trap postflop. If no one raises, that's not so bad either, you only have 50 cents invested in the pot, and anyone could have flopped two-pair, so it should be an easy hand to get away from. If you hit resistance, you absolutely have to proceed very carefully and think strongly of folding. Don't go broke in an unraised pot, like TJ Cloutier says, "If you limp with aces, you should never get broke with aces, but it happens all the time." Additionally, if the flop comes something like K44 when you have limped in with KK and no one raised it, you will likely win a big pot off someone with a 4 who wouldn't have been in the hand otherwise.

I would also limp JJ in early position and maybe even mid position too, since it's very vulnerable to a reraise, and if any overcards flop, you'll probably have to give up the pot anyways. Even if an overcard doesn't flop, a lot of the times you're either going to get no action or lose a big pot to QQ, so unless you make your set or run into 99 or TT with a rag flop, I don't think JJ has all that much value in a raised pot and it's a very dangerous hand to be out of position with, so it is generally correct to just limp it in EP and oftentimes MP.

I could even make the case for not raising QQ in EP, especially if you don't want to lose a big pot with the hand. If no one raises behind you, great, you put no money into the pot if an overcard flops, bet small (2/3 of pot is good, and in an unraised pot that's not a lot) and don't stand a lot of resistance if you have an overpair (if you're reraised you should probably just lay it down), and try to win a huge pot from hands that wouldn't have been in the pot in the first place if you're lucky enough to make a boat or set. One exception that I could think of to playing the hand slowly if you flop an overpair w/ QQ in an unraised pot is when the flop comes something like J24. In that case, you should push hard (probably check-raise) and try to win a big pot from someone with JK or JA. Even then though, you must beware of the blinds and fish who might be in there with J4 or 24.

If someone does raise behind you preflop when you've limped with QQ, that's fine too, just smooth call the raise (unless you're heads up and the raiser is shortstacked or makes a lot of weak raises), fold to any bet if an overcard flops, and check-raise the flop big if there's no overcards, and it's not a dangerous flop (i.e. no 3 straight or flush) and you don't think the bettor has AA or KK to either take the pot right there, make a draw pay to try to draw out, or break someone w/ TT or JJ. Of course, there's always the danger of running into AA or KK and getting broken yourself, but the same thing would probably happen if you made the original raise yourself (though a preflop reraise might tip you off if you raised instead of limping).

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Raising with Premium Hands in a 10 player NL Ring Game

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Raising with Premium Hands in a 10 player NL Ring Game