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Posted: Sun, 11 May 2008, 2:21pm Post subject: QQ early on vs. a calling station. |
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Flush
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 465
WPP: 162
Location: UK
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This was a 10-man $5.50 SnG. MP1 was the sort of player who, once he had put chips in the pot, would call a raise with anything. He could easily have some rubbish like A7 here, or even a worse hand with a 7 in it. Can I fold the QQ here though? I have 630 chips remaining at this point. Also, was my flop bet big enough? I could bet around 400 here but doubt it would make much difference against this type of player.
Big Blind is t30 (8 handed)
UTG (t1746)
UTG+1 (t1470)
MP1 (t1220)
MP2 (t1810)
CO (t4326)
Hero (t1130)
SB (t1460)
BB (t1838)
Preflop: Hero is Button with Q  , Q  .
2 folds, Mp1 calls t30, 1 fold, CO calls t30, Hero raises to t150, 2 folds, MP1 calls t120, 1 fold
Flop: (t375) 5 , 9  , 6 (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets t350, MP1 calls t350
Turn: (t1075) 8  (2 players)
MP1 bets t720 (All-In), Hero ?? |
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Posted: Sun, 11 May 2008, 10:10pm Post subject: |
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Straight Flush
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 4134
WPP: 65
Location: Stars $16 and $27 Sngs
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If you are confident in your read that he is a passive calling station I dont see a case when you are ahead, BTW I think a set is more likely then a 7, however you have to be pretty sure of your read to lay it down.
With blinds 15/30 you can come back from 630 chips |
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Posted: Sun, 11 May 2008, 11:03pm Post subject: |
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Straight Flush
Joined: 07 Jul 2005
Posts: 8132
WPP: 133
Location: Sydney
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| At a $5.50 tourney I can't see folding a QQ overpair, even on this board. There are still some hands that you beat that he might play like this (A9, flush draw, TT/JJ etc). If he was bad enough to call your pot sized bet with a gutshot draw then I pay him. |
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Posted: Mon, 12 May 2008, 4:35am Post subject: |
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I would fold here. If he was a calling station, he wouldn't went all-in without a good hand but simply wait for you to bet and call.
And what did you do? |
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Posted: Mon, 12 May 2008, 6:41am Post subject: |
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Season VII
Joined: 04 Aug 2004
Posts: 2401
WPP: 101
Location: HotLanta
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| I have to agree with TLR here. Most calling stations stay pretty passive until they hit 2 pair or better. I wouldn't be suprised to see villian flip over something like 89s here. |
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Posted: Mon, 12 May 2008, 2:59pm Post subject: |
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Flush
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 465
WPP: 162
Location: UK
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Thanks for the replies everyone.
| TLR wrote: | | If you are confident in your read that he is a passive calling station I dont see a case when you are ahead, BTW I think a set is more likely then a 7, however you have to be pretty sure of your read to lay it down. |
| GatorJH wrote: | | I have to agree with TLR here. Most calling stations stay pretty passive until they hit 2 pair or better. I wouldn't be suprised to see villian flip over something like 89s here. |
Yes, at this level, the passive players do not usually become aggressive without a big hand. This could easily be a set, as TLR said, or something bigger. These were my main reasons for folding the hand. He showed me 5, 7 and then was constantly talking in the chat for the next ten minutes about how brilliant a poker player he was. I agreed with him while I was taking down notes on him.  |
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Posted: Wed, 14 May 2008, 7:39am Post subject: |
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Straight Flush
Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 6662
WPP: 66
Location: Somewhere in middle america
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insta call, this is a much better turn than a heart or the board pairing or an A. You almost have the right price to play against two pair.
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I could bet around 400 here but doubt it would make much difference against this type of player. |
I don't like this because it sounds like you want him to fold so he doesn't hit. You want him to make a mistake, not necessarily to fold. If you think he'll call 400 with the same hands he'll call 350 with, bet the 400. |
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Posted: Wed, 14 May 2008, 11:33am Post subject: |
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Flush
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 465
WPP: 162
Location: UK
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| drmcboy wrote: | | Rage2100 wrote: | | I could bet around 400 here but doubt it would make much difference against this type of player. |
I don't like this because it sounds like you want him to fold so he doesn't hit. You want him to make a mistake, not necessarily to fold. If you think he'll call 400 with the same hands he'll call 350 with, bet the 400. |
It's not that I wanted him to fold, although it does read like that. In these situations I try to balance my bets. Sometimes I think I may be able to get them to call another 50 or 100 chips, but at the same time I want to keep those 50 or 100 chips in case I have to fold.
That sounds backwards and it probably is, and I see what you are saying. If I think I can get 400 chips off him, I should get 400 chips off him. But at the same time, I think those extra 50 or 100 chips are much more valuable to a stack of around 600 if I have to fold, than they are to a stack of around 2000+ if I win after he calls the turn. |
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Posted: Wed, 14 May 2008, 11:49am Post subject: |
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Straight Flush
Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 6662
WPP: 66
Location: Somewhere in middle america
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I would make someone prove they have a read on what the size of your bet means before you worry much about it. If someone has time to figure out you bet closer to full pot when you have it and HPS when you don't, you should also have time to use that. Mostly in tourneys you won't be in against the same people enough for it to matter. Don't forget you'll also be c-betting different amounts based on board texture.
I'm not saying people won't sometimes get reads on what you are doing - just that the marginal EV you get from making the same size bets is probably not worth making a bet that you feel is not the optimal size. |
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Posted: Tue, 02 Sep 2008, 5:29am Post subject: |
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High Card
Joined: 02 Sep 2008
Posts: 1
WPP: 152
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greetings from Israel!
it is unlikelythat he has a 7, for 2 main reasons:
1. it means he called you on the flop with a gutshot, unless he had a gutshot along with a flush draw, or a very unlikely double gutshot (aka 7+3).
2. he has a very disguised draw, in fact he thinks (probably putting you on an overpair) that you think he has a flush draw. so why would he bet out of position into the initial raiser who bets hard on the flop? wouldn't he prefer to check his concealed draw, letting you hang yourself with a huge bet trying to let him off his flush draw?
i would say he correctly puts you on exactly what you have, and semi-bluffs an improved draw on the turn (aka J10h, A8h etc.) trying to make you fold the better hand, and even if you call he is still only about a 2:1 dog. |
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Posted: Tue, 02 Sep 2008, 11:50am Post subject: |
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Straight Flush
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 4134
WPP: 65
Location: Stars $16 and $27 Sngs
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| danielp wrote: | greetings from Israel!
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Wow, A fellow Israeli, welcome...
| danielp wrote: |
it is unlikelythat he has a 7, for 2 main reasons:
1. it means he called you on the flop with a gutshot, unless he had a gutshot along with a flush draw, or a very unlikely double gutshot (aka 7+3).
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He can have A7h, 77, 89, 79 (although less likely to call preflop)
| danielp wrote: |
2. he has a very disguised draw, in fact he thinks (probably putting you on an overpair) that you think he has a flush draw. so why would he bet out of position into the initial raiser who bets hard on the flop? wouldn't he prefer to check his concealed draw, letting you hang yourself with a huge bet trying to let him off his flush draw?
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Your line of thought here assumes a decent player, not the type of player that is common at the 5.5, the one who calls with all sorts of draws and bets when he hits them
i would say he correctly puts you on exactly what you have, and semi-bluffs an improved draw on the turn (aka J10h, A8h etc.) trying to make you fold the better hand, and even if you call he is still only about a 2:1 dog.[/quote] |
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Posted: Tue, 02 Sep 2008, 7:01pm Post subject: |
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Full House
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 727
WPP: 72
Location: screw sngs
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one of my friends is a complete passive player.. if he was the villain I would fold here.. but again I play with him once in at most two weeks..
it's not the case here so I can't fold this.. you have a nice read but it's a small sample and can change a lot.. he could also be overvaluing some hands.. I call.. |
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