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Posted: Thu, 14 Aug 2008, 7:15pm Post subject: What is your turn play in this spot?
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One Pair
Joined: 29 Jul 2008
Posts: 15
WPP: 36
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On the turn it appears villans range is heavily weighted to a worse queen or air. I have been playing very agressive so its not unreasonable hes bluff raising here to get me off some kind of pocket pair i double barreled.
Villans calling range is full house or QQQ. Board is pretty dry is calling his raise the best play or just shipping it in. Heres the hand:
PokerStars NL Hold'em - $1/$2 Ring (5 handed)
Hand History converter powered by Poker.vg
Starting Stacks:
Seat 1: BB ($171.10)
Seat 2: UTG ($338.25)
Seat 3: CO (Hero) ($511.05)
Seat 4: BTN ($32)
Seat 6: SB ($533.15)
Preflop: Hero is CO with
 
UTG raises $6, Hero calls $6, BTN folds, SB folds, BB folds
Flop: ($15) - 2 players
  
UTG checks, Hero bets $10, UTG calls $10
Turn: ($35) - 2 players
UTG checks, Hero bets $27, UTG raises $100, Hero calls $73
River: ($235) - 2 players
UTG all-in $222.25, Hero calls $222.25
Final pot: $677.50 ($2 rake)
Results below:
UTG has a full house, Queens full of Kings
 
UTG wins $677.50 from main pot
Hand History converter powered by Poker.vg |
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Posted: Thu, 14 Aug 2008, 7:26pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 1623
WPP: 47
Location: Gainesville
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Posted: Thu, 14 Aug 2008, 7:27pm Post subject:
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One Pair
Joined: 29 Jul 2008
Posts: 15
WPP: 36
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| maybe im just over analysing a sick cooler. |
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Posted: Thu, 14 Aug 2008, 7:30pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 770
WPP: 109
Location: Watching spoon stroke his own ego
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2 things: we generally don't show results to make analysis more objective, and if you have any reads on the guy it would help.
I probably 3bet preflop.
That said, assuming we're a reg and the guy is unknown to us (meaning he's probably not a reg) I would hate life on the turn, but probably call as you did, then fold the river.
There are some common reads that change my play here tho.
If he's made a few hero calls or laggs it up after the flop I'd probably push over on the turn. This was actually my first thought, but after trying to put the guy on a range I decided I didn't like it. |
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Posted: Thu, 14 Aug 2008, 8:12pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 1384
WPP: 117
Location: value towning myself
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Posted: Thu, 14 Aug 2008, 9:10pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 770
WPP: 109
Location: Watching spoon stroke his own ego
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| Do we have AA and KK in his range on the turn? If so how does he flat that flop? What do we beat on the river? |
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Posted: Thu, 14 Aug 2008, 9:13pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 15 Oct 2004
Posts: 1476
WPP: 135
Location: moral high ground
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| Deanglow is right. dev, we beat a shit ton on the river. |
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Posted: Thu, 14 Aug 2008, 10:31pm Post subject:
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One Pair
Joined: 29 Jul 2008
Posts: 15
WPP: 36
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his range is in my opinion heavily weighted towards lower queens, flopped or turned fullhouse or total air figuring i dont have a queen and will fold to his raise.
Id assume his pocketpairs call instead of raising the turn. But i could be wrong. |
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Posted: Thu, 14 Aug 2008, 10:33pm Post subject:
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One Pair
Joined: 29 Jul 2008
Posts: 15
WPP: 36
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| i also think he would valuebet shove worse queens on river. and possibly air. but i could be wrong about air also. |
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Posted: Fri, 15 Aug 2008, 12:34am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 1623
WPP: 47
Location: Gainesville
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| who gives a shit what his range just know that we are ahead of it |
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Posted: Fri, 15 Aug 2008, 1:16am Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 1384
WPP: 117
Location: value towning myself
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| Deanglow wrote: | | who gives a shit what his range just know that we are ahead of it |
new sig. |
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Posted: Fri, 15 Aug 2008, 2:43am Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 770
WPP: 109
Location: Watching spoon stroke his own ego
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| Deanglow wrote: | | who gives a shit what his range just know that we are ahead of it | Wow, this is great, now I'll just always put my money in. Hell, I'm always ahead! |
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Posted: Fri, 15 Aug 2008, 12:36pm Post subject:
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One Pair
Joined: 29 Jul 2008
Posts: 15
WPP: 36
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| well it is important in determining if the turn is a call or a shove. Nice quote though but it has absolutely no bearing on this hand. |
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Posted: Fri, 15 Aug 2008, 1:52pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 2521
WPP: 92
Location: Arlington, VA
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Shoving the turn with the obvious best hand is better than suddenly finding yourself in a marginal situation when a diamond, J or K falls and he pushes.
The only reason to just call the turn would be to get more action out of a total bluff, but he is never bluffing here. Just get all-in and laugh when he was trapping you with the worst hand. |
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Posted: Sat, 16 Aug 2008, 12:05am Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 15 Oct 2004
Posts: 1476
WPP: 135
Location: moral high ground
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| Squizzel do you want to learn something about poker? Listen to Deanglow. Then go find out what a range is. |
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Posted: Sat, 16 Aug 2008, 12:06am Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 15 Oct 2004
Posts: 1476
WPP: 135
Location: moral high ground
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| That might have come across harsh, but you are shutting out the best advice in the thread. You are posting essentially a bad beat here. |
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Posted: Sat, 16 Aug 2008, 12:46am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 1623
WPP: 47
Location: Gainesville
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| Squizzel wrote: | | well it is important in determining if the turn is a call or a shove. Nice quote though but it has absolutely no bearing on this hand. |
What I meant by saying we don't care about his (value) range (on the turn/river) is that we should focus solely on extracting. There is no time to dillydally over whether we have the best hand or not, because we almost always do.
I like a turn call because his line looks a bit bluffy and it is best to let him continue because there are bluffs in his range at this point in the hand, but less of them on river. But who cares, call. |
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Posted: Sat, 16 Aug 2008, 5:20am Post subject:
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Straight
Joined: 19 Dec 2007
Posts: 172
WPP: 69
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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| Deanglow wrote: | | Squizzel wrote: | | well it is important in determining if the turn is a call or a shove. Nice quote though but it has absolutely no bearing on this hand. |
What I meant by saying we don't care about his (value) range (on the turn/river) is that we should focus solely on extracting. There is no time to dillydally over whether we have the best hand or not, because we almost always do.
I like a turn call because his line looks a bit bluffy and it is best to let him continue because there are bluffs in his range at this point in the hand, but less of them on river. But who cares, call. |
Nice post. I'm a smarter player/person after reading it. |
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Posted: Sat, 16 Aug 2008, 5:31am Post subject:
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Royal Flush
Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 17644
WPP: 82
Location: Walk the Walk, Flop the Flop.
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For a typical TAgg in this game his turn range is:
AQ/KQ/JQs/QTs/55 maybe a really weird AA/KK. I think most of the players in that game run this line as a bruff almost never.
Board: Qh Qd 5d 7c
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 22.010% 17.22% 04.78% 144 40.00 { KK+, 55, AQs, KQs, QTs+, KQo }
Hand 1: 77.990% 73.21% 04.78% 612 40.00 { AsQs }
Board: Qh Qd 5d 7c Ks
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 63.333% 60.00% 03.33% 9 0.50 { KK+, 55, AQs, KQs, QTs+, KQo }
Hand 1: 36.667% 33.33% 03.33% 5 0.50 { AsQs }
Gotta hate when you're about even money against his core hand range putting in $200 on the river. Meh. |
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