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Posted: Fri, 25 Mar 2005, 6:44pm Post subject: lots of action preflop, smart to push with AA?
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Full House
Joined: 12 Dec 2004
Posts: 1296
WPP: 54
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Let's say you're on the button with AA in a very loose game
UTG raises 6xBB, 5-6 people call.
Action is to you and the pot is very large, so wouldn't it make sense to try and win the pot right there?
I pushed because I believe you don't want more than 2-3 opponents against AA,
Anyways, UTG called with 88, and i won the pot (40BB). I probably would have lost if I limped because the flop was straight and flush connecting |
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Posted: Fri, 25 Mar 2005, 6:47pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 3338
WPP: 154
Location: Ellicott City, MD
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| Yes. You want to get this heads up. It's not bad to take it down preflop if it's raised that much anyway. |
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Posted: Fri, 25 Mar 2005, 9:54pm Post subject:
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| How is this even a question. Of course you want to push it.... |
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Posted: Fri, 25 Mar 2005, 10:37pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 1791
WPP: 58
Location: PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME
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Posted: Fri, 25 Mar 2005, 10:52pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 12 Dec 2004
Posts: 1296
WPP: 54
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| doggz wrote: | | How is this even a question. Of course you want to push it.... | it's a matter of maximizing profit, without getting out-drawn,....
there are times when you don't want to reraise simply because you have the best hand, especially against a weaker field, raising is often less profitable. |
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Posted: Sat, 26 Mar 2005, 1:54pm Post subject:
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Starfleet's Finest
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 2081
WPP: 113
Location: The University of TEXAS at Austin
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| Uh...push? raise to the max! You do NOT want 6 opponents in here! |
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Posted: Sat, 26 Mar 2005, 5:19pm Post subject:
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Strike 3
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 2223
WPP: 4
Location: Sacramento
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| {This post has been removed} |
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Posted: Sat, 26 Mar 2005, 6:40pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 1461
WPP: 122
Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot
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"FYI in a 4 way pot...AA is only a 30% some odd favorite...imagine a 6way"
that's true, but if you pushed aa preflop 1000 times, you'd make more money with 6 callers than with 1, i do believe. |
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Posted: Sat, 26 Mar 2005, 7:40pm Post subject:
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Starfleet's Finest
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 2081
WPP: 113
Location: The University of TEXAS at Austin
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Don't forget to factor in how you'll feel after your AA loses that 70% of the time. That'll cost ya money too.  |
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Posted: Sun, 27 Mar 2005, 1:59am Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 1461
WPP: 122
Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot
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| oh, and to answer your question. I think a push is ok here. i'd probably just reraise to about 4-5x the initial raise though, i think you get 100% folds a lot of the time with a push, i'd want a caller or two, then i'd probably just push the flop regardless unless it came like JQKs |
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Posted: Sun, 27 Mar 2005, 6:34pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 3338
WPP: 154
Location: Ellicott City, MD
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| If you just reraise here, you'll often end up with several callers. They have a decent commitment to the pot, so a normal-sized reraise is usually bad. With that kind of action, and a healthy pot, you shouldn't be worried if you take it down preflop. It's a nice boost to your stack even if that happens. But if you don't raise enough to get some of them out, you may well end up losing it. |
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Posted: Sun, 27 Mar 2005, 6:41pm Post subject: Re: lots of action preflop, smart to push with AA?
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 3338
WPP: 154
Location: Ellicott City, MD
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| jmontis wrote: | Let's say you're on the button with AA in a very loose game
UTG raises 6xBB, 5-6 people call.
Action is to you and the pot is very large, so wouldn't it make sense to try and win the pot right there?
I pushed because I believe you don't want more than 2-3 opponents against AA,
Anyways, UTG called with 88, and i won the pot (40BB). I probably would have lost if I limped because the flop was straight and flush connecting |
One question (beside the fact that you're misusing BB here...BB = Big Bet = 2xbig blind):
UTG raised 6x and 5 people called. That makes the pot 36xBB. You push, presumably for a decent amount if all but one person folded. How is the pot only 4xBB more? Or did he raise it 3xBB making it 18xBB to you and you pushed for 11x more?
In any case, with that small a stack (15x total!?) a push here is an easy decision (speaking as someone who specifically chooses to buyin with a small stack...though I usually go for 20-25x).
- Jeffrey |
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Posted: Sun, 27 Mar 2005, 8:20pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 12 Dec 2004
Posts: 1296
WPP: 54
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| i meant 6x big blind, so it was a $3 raise. |
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Posted: Mon, 28 Mar 2005, 8:22pm Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 20 Apr 2004
Posts: 324
WPP: 106
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Posted: Mon, 28 Mar 2005, 8:58pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 3338
WPP: 154
Location: Ellicott City, MD
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| Iconoclastic wrote: | | mmmmm, fish |
?
I'm hoping you're referring to the 1/2 a dozen callers and the guy who called a push with 88... |
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Posted: Mon, 28 Mar 2005, 11:30pm Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 20 Apr 2004
Posts: 324
WPP: 106
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| JeffreyGB wrote: | | Iconoclastic wrote: | | mmmmm, fish |
?
I'm hoping you're referring to the 1/2 a dozen callers and the guy who called a push with 88... | Yes. |
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Posted: Tue, 29 Mar 2005, 3:12am Post subject:
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3-of-a-Kind
Joined: 20 Jan 2005
Posts: 108
WPP: 48
Location: Delaware
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| Preflop, I'll take everything and anything allin with AA. |
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Posted: Tue, 29 Mar 2005, 9:41am Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 799
WPP: 62
Location: Orlando, FL
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| raise 4x to 5x preflop, if you get reraised, push. standard AA play. |
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Posted: Tue, 29 Mar 2005, 12:17pm Post subject:
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Straight
Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 187
WPP: 177
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| Ripptyde wrote: | | FYI in a 4 way pot...AA is only a 30% some odd favorite...imagine a 6way |
But if it's 4-way and everyone has a decent amount of money on the table, I agree that in a ring game you would want 4 (or 6) callers allin preflop because the pot is going to lay you 4 or 6 to one on your money. Even though the odds of AA holding up goes down to say .25 or .3 against multiple opponents, this move is still hugely +EV as it crushes the .2 or .14 chance of winning you'd need to justify calling with those kind of pot odds. Of course, if you were risk averse, and knew 6 people were going to call you for all your chips, you might want to see a flop. But this might be a bankroll issue more than anything else (at least for me). |
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Posted: Thu, 31 Mar 2005, 2:06am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 2521
WPP: 92
Location: Arlington, VA
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| All-in. You either win a decent-sized pot there, or get called by someone who's dominated. Seems better than seeing a flop and suddenly having an opponent show a lot of interest in the hand. |
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Posted: Thu, 31 Mar 2005, 2:13am Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 1461
WPP: 122
Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot
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| i guess i break from the mold a little bit here. to me, that's not a big enough raise to merit a push so easily. sometimes, sure if i'm feeling in the mood. and, i don't necessarily think its a bad play. but, say you're in a .10/.20 room. raise was to 1.20. your stack is 20 dollars. there's a lot of room for raising in there. i'd raise it up to 5-6 dollars. you're going to cut down your callers to at worst 2. lots more money to be made from this hand. |
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Posted: Thu, 31 Mar 2005, 4:38pm Post subject:
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Straight
Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 130
WPP: 61
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| Loose tables will not respect anything other than a major bet or all-in here. Only way to get the heads-up matchup you want. If everyone folds, fine. |
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Posted: Fri, 01 Apr 2005, 7:12am Post subject:
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Two Pair
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 37
WPP: 132
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[quote="studboyjoe"]Loose tables will not respect anything other than a major bet or all-in here. Only way to get the heads-up matchup you want. If everyone folds, fine.[/quote]
That isn't even a given in some instances. I lost twice with wired A's on the low-limit games at [url=http://www.flopturnriver.com/reviews/Online-Poker-PartyPoker.php]Party Poker[/url] just last night (once to J3 who hit his two pair on the flop, and once to 78 who got the miracle full-boat on the draw). On loose low-limit tables, where people barely think twice about an AI bet, you can easily get your aces cracked, so your pre-flop bet barely matters. I'm almost just considering limping or calling any bet with my aces, until I can move up to the better tables. |
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