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Posted: Fri, 25 Mar 2005, 2:27am Post subject: How do you play AKs |
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One Pair

Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 20 WPP: 91
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I was looking at my PokerTracker stats, and one of the hands I lost with most is surprisingly AKs. I figured out some of the problems im my game, but I wanted to ask how other people play this so it's profitable.
What I noticed is that most of the pots I won were smaller, and the ones I lost were larger. Figures because if an A or K hits and I bet, people will tend to fold. I get in trouble when I miss the flop of course.
I'll explain the two cases I had most problems with to see what your oppinion is:
*** 1. PartyPoker $25 NL. Raise $1.5-$2 with AKs, get 2 callers.
Flop misses me, small cards with maybe a 7 or 8. I bet about half the pot $3, one of the two players raises to $10 and I fold, losing $5.
I have a feeling some people will assume you always raise Ahigh, and if it's a small flop they try to bluff... Do you usually find it's a bluff, what do you do against a raise ??
*** 2. PartyPoker $25 NL. Raise $1.5-$2 wih AKs, get 1-2 callers.
Flop misses me, small cards, but I get two cards of my suit. I bet about $3 half the pot, one other player raises to $6, I call to draw to a flush. No flush card, I check, other player bets about $6, maybe I call it upset, miss the river where I fold if there's a bet, losing $8-$15.
Thoughts on what I could do better ? Maybe I should bet out less or check when I have a draw and I want to stay in the hand ? Should I call less if I'm raised on the draw? Usually I am getting about 4:1 odds to call the raise, but I didn't get the flush. It looks like I only made a flush 2 of over 80 AKs hands, and not much money in them.
Weird, AKo is a profitable hand for me. True I had it about 300 times, maybe the sample is better...
Let me know how you play this hand, thoughts on what I can do better. The more ideas the better. |
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Posted: Fri, 25 Mar 2005, 3:45am Post subject: Re: How do you play AKs |
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Royal Flush

Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 16962 WPP: 83
Location: Raise Pre-flop, Check/Raise Flop
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| poker2006 wrote: |
*** 2. PartyPoker $25 NL. Raise $1.5-$2 wih AKs, get 1-2 callers.
Flop misses me, small cards, but I get two cards of my suit. I bet about $3 half the pot, one other player raises to $6, I call to draw to a flush. No flush card, I check, other player bets about $6, maybe I call it upset, miss the river where I fold if there's a bet, losing $8-$15.
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With 2 overs + a flush draw I would seriously consider pushing depending on the board and who raised. Another option is to make it $12 flat and check behind on the turn unimproved. |
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Posted: Fri, 25 Mar 2005, 11:57am Post subject: |
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One Pair

Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 20 WPP: 91
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| Maybe I should try for a while to raise less with AK, and play it more like a drawing hand which it is. Somehow aggressive play on mising AKs backfires. I either don't get called and win a small pot, or get called/raised and loose a big pot. |
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Posted: Fri, 25 Mar 2005, 2:18pm Post subject: |
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High Card

Joined: 03 Feb 2005
Posts: 11 WPP: 72
Location: Houston
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I personally don't like AK that much because it seems to get me in big trouble.
Example :
Last night $10 buy in 8 players at the table.
I have AKs (spades).
Flop: 9h, jd, qc
I raise $2, and have one caller
Turn: 2c
I raise $2, get re-raised $5.. I fold
Well turns out that my opponent has TT and the rest of my AK outs were taken by the playes at the table. I always find that when I am delt AK at big tables that my outs are always gone.
Now, when I am playing short handed that is a diffrent story. AK pays off for me because not all my outs are taken.
I also fold AK UTG. |
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Posted: Fri, 25 Mar 2005, 4:31pm Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind

Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 1602 WPP: 105
Location: Party 6 max
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| Quote: | | I also fold AK UTG. |
You're so crazy.
AK is the 5th best hand you can have. Raise.
IF you catch nothing, learn to fold it.
This is a pre flop hand, if you have A high after the flop, play it like A high. |
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Posted: Sun, 27 Mar 2005, 10:27am Post subject: |
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Full House

Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 1461 WPP: 122
Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot
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"With 2 overs + a flush draw I would seriously consider pushing depending on the board and who raised. Another option is to make it $12 flat and check behind on the turn unimproved."
that's an interesting idea. you'd have 9 + 6 so 15 outs, so you're like 60% to win. i don't know how i never realized this, thank you  |
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Posted: Mon, 28 Mar 2005, 3:59pm Post subject: |
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Two Pair

Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 30 WPP: 56
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| Greedo017 wrote: | | you'd have 9 + 6 so 15 outs, so you're like 60% to win. | that's assuming that hitting an overcard would be enough to win, which is not always the case. |
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Posted: Mon, 28 Mar 2005, 4:32pm Post subject: |
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Full House

Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 1461 WPP: 122
Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot
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| true, but a lot of times it is, and you've got 9 outs even if its not. |
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Posted: Mon, 28 Mar 2005, 4:32pm Post subject: |
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Full House

Joined: 12 Dec 2004
Posts: 1296 WPP: 54
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Doyle Brunson's wise advice changed my opinion of getting AKs vs AA/KK.
with AK, you can raise, either hit a monster flop, bluff the pot , or fold, it's that simple.
AA or KK, you have to do some very serious reading and hope that nobody catches a miracle card. |
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Posted: Wed, 30 Mar 2005, 3:43am Post subject: |
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Full House

Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 914 WPP: 111
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By betting out you can make the flush, hit one of your overs, or....your opp can fold and you take it right there. Tons of ways to win if you are aggressive. If you just check..call, you MUST hit one of your outs to win.
It helps to know whether your opponent is capable of folding in this spot before choosing which course of action to take. |
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Posted: Thu, 31 Mar 2005, 2:56pm Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind

Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3037 WPP: 95
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| Minion wrote: | | I also fold AK UTG. |
Now I've heard everything. You likely have the best starting hand out of anyone in the pot, and you fold? That's a huge hole in your game. |
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Posted: Thu, 31 Mar 2005, 4:20pm Post subject: |
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Flush

Joined: 22 Mar 2005
Posts: 269 WPP: 59
Location: Victoria BC
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| Minion wrote: | Well turns out that my opponent has TT and the rest of my AK outs were taken by the playes at the table. I always find that when I am delt AK at big tables that my outs are always gone.
Now, when I am playing short handed that is a diffrent story. AK pays off for me because not all my outs are taken. |
I really do not understand this logic. You have good cards, so they are automatically taken up by the other players? So if you had 46 you'd have a better chance of winning because the fours and sixes haven't been scooped up by the other players? WTF? You really need to think about what you are saying here, because it is positively senseless.
And that last part about folding AK....WTF.
You have some serious holes in your game pal. At least you're going about fixing them which is good I suppose. |
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Posted: Thu, 31 Mar 2005, 5:32pm Post subject: |
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Starfleet's Finest

Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 2080 WPP: 105
Location: The University of TEXAS at Austin
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Actually, there's quite a stir about whether AK is a good hand. I know a person who earns a lot who folds AK EVERY time, because he's convinced it's a money loser.
Why? When you hit that A or K, you're still not golden. A set will now OWN you and it will take you a lot of discipline to lay down TPTK.
When you don't hit that A or K, you're reduced to bluffing. And normally, that means close to a pot sized bet. So let's say the pot is $40. You each put in $20 preflop (assuming one opponent). Now you're going to bet $40 more to try to win that $40, but only $20 of that is NOT originally yours.
So to sum up, you're betting $60 to win $20. And this will not work anywhere near enough times to show you a profit (It will have to work 4 out of 5 times in order for this play to be profitable).
So...yeah. Throughout a bazillion AK's...I am barely up. I think 16 times the blind or something like that. But perhaps I'm lucky. I know I love it when the other guy has AK, because it's easy to trash it.
At any rate, I still can't bring myself to fold AK usually preflop. I'll limp with it from early and raise with it from late, but yeah...the guy I know who always folds AK? He earns about...oh...18 times what I do, so yeah. |
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Posted: Thu, 31 Mar 2005, 5:38pm Post subject: |
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LAME HUMOR THAT MAKES FISH LAUGH

Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 7456 WPP: 65
Location: This room is a good place to be
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AKs and AKo win me .61 and .31 BB per hand.
And that's money in the bank, my friend.
-'rilla |
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Posted: Thu, 31 Mar 2005, 8:21pm Post subject: |
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Flush

Joined: 22 Mar 2005
Posts: 269 WPP: 59
Location: Victoria BC
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| ensign_lee wrote: | When you don't hit that A or K, you're reduced to bluffing. And normally, that means close to a pot sized bet. So let's say the pot is $40. You each put in $20 preflop (assuming one opponent). Now you're going to bet $40 more to try to win that $40, but only $20 of that is NOT originally yours.
So to sum up, you're betting $60 to win $20. And this will not work anywhere near enough times to show you a profit (It will have to work 4 out of 5 times in order for this play to be profitable). |
That is bad logic. Money put into the pot is no longer yours.
You are betting $40 to win $40. If the opponent(s) fold more than half the time it is a +EV play. |
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