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Posted: Fri, 16 May 2008, 10:39am Post subject: 89s First Hand |
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Two Pair
Joined: 15 May 2008
Posts: 31
WPP: 119
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I don't know if anyone noticed this or not, but PokerStars recently added a new line in their hand histories:
Uncalled bet (630) returned to xxxx.
This has been needed for a while to make the hand histories more complete.
I was going to post a HH for discussion when I noticed that the Hand History converter used in this forum has a bug and doesn't report any action in the betting which contains this line. I reported the bug. For this HH, I removed the offending line. Don't be too hard on me. It is my first HH posted here.
$6.50, Turbo, 45 -player...first hand...
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed)
Button (t1500)
SB (t1500)
Hero (t1500)
UTG (t1500)
UTG+1 (t1500)
MP1 (t1500)
MP2 (t1500)
MP3 (t1500)
CO (t1500)
Preflop: Hero is BB with 8c9c
1 fold, UTG+1 calls t20, MP1 raises to t60, MP2 calls t60, 3 folds, SB calls t50, Hero calls t40, UTG+1 calls t40.
Flop: (t300) 6d 2d 7h (5 players)
SB checks, Hero bets t60, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls t60, MP2 folds, SB calls t60.
Turn: (t480) 5h(3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets t200, MP1 folds, SB calls t200.
River: (t880) 9h (2 players)
SB bets t300, Hero folds.
Final Pot: t880 |
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Posted: Fri, 16 May 2008, 10:45am Post subject: |
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Royal Flush
Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 17149
WPP: 83
Location: Walk the Walk, Flop the Flop.
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| He's got to show me a better hand here. |
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Posted: Fri, 16 May 2008, 10:50am Post subject: |
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OLD MAN RIVER
Joined: 14 Sep 2005
Posts: 3503
WPP: 73
Location: Canuckistan
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Why are we betting like a girl?
Welcome to FTR, btw. |
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Posted: Fri, 16 May 2008, 10:50am Post subject: |
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Two Pair
Joined: 15 May 2008
Posts: 31
WPP: 119
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| Without much info on the guy, all I can figure that he called my little less than half the pot turn bet with overcards and a flush draw. I think he might have had odds. |
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Posted: Fri, 16 May 2008, 10:51am Post subject: |
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Straight Flush
Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 6416
WPP: 65
Location: Somewhere in middle america
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call river for sure
I would either make a real bet on the flop, CRAI if one person leads or maybe c/c if the whole table is still in. My problem with the 60 lead is if anyone pops it up they probably will not fold if you shove and calling is awkward with the flush draw out and the chance we may be good if we hit an 8/9.
Also bet a lot more on turn, if he liked his hand on the flop he still likes it now. |
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Posted: Fri, 16 May 2008, 10:55am Post subject: |
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Two Pair
Joined: 15 May 2008
Posts: 31
WPP: 119
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| Warpe wrote: | Why are we betting like a girl?
Welcome to FTR, btw. |
Thank you.
Why? 1) Thought it would be enough to take it down. 2) Like to play small pots early. 3) 60 bet on flop was to keep the pot small. |
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Posted: Fri, 16 May 2008, 11:12am Post subject: Re: 89s First Hand |
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Flush
Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Posts: 398
WPP: 127
Location: Ohio
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| StarTracker wrote: |
Preflop: Hero is BB with 8c9c
1 fold, UTG+1 calls t20, MP1 raises to t60, MP2 calls t60, 3 folds, SB calls t50, Hero calls t40, UTG+1 calls t40.
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So first hand, you are BB and felt compelled to call with 8-9?
Guess I play a bit more conservatively. |
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Posted: Fri, 16 May 2008, 11:29am Post subject: Re: 89s First Hand |
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Two Pair
Joined: 15 May 2008
Posts: 31
WPP: 119
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| Quote: | | So first hand, you are BB and felt compelled to call with 8-9? |
I am pretty conservative too. I typically have the lowest VPIP. However blinds are small, and I can walk away at this point without much of a hit to my stack. In this case I was pretty sure 5 would see the flop and I am getting a tad less than 8:1 to call. Yeah, I am out of position, however one technique to use is the small flop bet to control the betting, and it turns into a value bet if I make my draw. |
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Posted: Fri, 16 May 2008, 11:35am Post subject: |
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Royal Flush
Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 17149
WPP: 83
Location: Walk the Walk, Flop the Flop.
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| The river is by far the worst played street. |
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Posted: Fri, 16 May 2008, 11:40am Post subject: ATs 5 hands later |
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Two Pair
Joined: 15 May 2008
Posts: 31
WPP: 119
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5 hands later...against the same player who made the t300 bet on the river.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed)
UTG+1 (t1420)
MP1 (t2860)
Hero (t1080)
MP3 (t1780)
CO (t1215)
Button (t1185)
SB (t1330)
BB (t1480)
UTG (t1150)
Preflop: Hero is MP2 with ac tc.
2 folds, MP1 calls t30, Hero raises to t120, 5 folds, MP1 calls t90.
Flop: (t285) 6h 8c as (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets t90, MP1 raises to t330, [color=#CC3333]Hero? |
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Posted: Fri, 16 May 2008, 11:42am Post subject: |
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Royal Flush
Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 17149
WPP: 83
Location: Walk the Walk, Flop the Flop.
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I thought your flop bet was cute and exploitive in the first hand, in the second hand it's pretty terrible.
"I'm weak, raise me!"
"OK!"
"Fuck, I wasn't really that weak...." |
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Posted: Fri, 16 May 2008, 11:48am Post subject: Re: 89s First Hand |
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Flush
Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Posts: 398
WPP: 127
Location: Ohio
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| StarTracker wrote: | | Quote: | | So first hand, you are BB and felt compelled to call with 8-9? |
I am pretty conservative too. I typically have the lowest VPIP. However blinds are small, and I can walk away at this point without much of a hit to my stack. In this case I was pretty sure 5 would see the flop and I am getting a tad less than 8:1 to call. Yeah, I am out of position, however one technique to use is the small flop bet to control the betting, and it turns into a value bet if I make my draw. |
Maybe it is just to toughen me up... but my mentors have told me to not enter any pot I don't plan on winning... and never to limp or call. |
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Posted: Fri, 16 May 2008, 12:03pm Post subject: |
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Two Pair
Joined: 15 May 2008
Posts: 31
WPP: 119
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| Fnord wrote: | I thought your flop bet was cute and exploitive in the first hand, in the second hand it's pretty terrible.
"I'm weak, raise me!"
"OK!"
"Fuck, I wasn't really that weak...." |
So what's you're move here as Hero? I'll show what I did but first I'm wondering what other's would do? |
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Posted: Fri, 16 May 2008, 12:22pm Post subject: |
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Royal Flush
Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 17149
WPP: 83
Location: Walk the Walk, Flop the Flop.
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| StarTracker wrote: |
So what's you're move here as Hero? |
Either check the flop or bet at least 200. |
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Posted: Fri, 16 May 2008, 12:23pm Post subject: Re: 89s First Hand |
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Royal Flush
Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 17149
WPP: 83
Location: Walk the Walk, Flop the Flop.
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| Monty3038 wrote: | | Maybe it is just to toughen me up... but my mentors have told me to not enter any pot I don't plan on winning... and never to limp or call. |
I hope you didn't pay a lot of money for that advice. I think I saw that written on the side of a Coke can last week...
...I think next week's run says "don't bet into a dry side pot without a very strong hand" |
Last edited by Fnord on Fri, 16 May 2008, 12:37pm; edited 1 time in total
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Posted: Fri, 16 May 2008, 12:31pm Post subject: |
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Flush
Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Posts: 269
WPP: 70
Location: NYC
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| Umm, you have nuts on the turn on hand 1 but its double suited board with 4 players in. Make them pay to draw. Why would you bet less than half pot? I bet at least 3/4 here more likely full pot. And why would you fold river here, you think he made running flush? |
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Posted: Fri, 16 May 2008, 1:39pm Post subject: |
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Two Pair
Joined: 15 May 2008
Posts: 31
WPP: 119
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| yourfather wrote: | | Umm, you have nuts on the turn on hand 1 but its double suited board with 4 players in. Make them pay to draw. Why would you bet less than half pot? I bet at least 3/4 here more likely full pot. And why would you fold river here, you think he made running flush? |
This is what I wanted to discuss. Since it is the first hand, I didn't want to get too much of my stack in there, not knowing if any of these players were wanting to gamble early on. I like to keep the pots small early while I get a feel for the players. I guess the size of the pot got a little out of hand without me knowing it. So, I wasn't ready to bet what was really needed for the situation. I was more concerned with preserving my stack for later on when I have more info on the players.
This guy continued to play very aggressive until 5 hands later when I got him isolated with a medium Ace suited. What actually happened was he took my bait and I re-raised him all-in. He folded.
So I got my chips back, but it also told me that I should have called his river bet (which seems to be a consensus). If I would have bet big on the flop in the second hand, he would have folded. Instead, my read was right and I got him to lay down a hand after a very big raise. |
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Posted: Fri, 16 May 2008, 1:49pm Post subject: |
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Royal Flush
Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 17149
WPP: 83
Location: Walk the Walk, Flop the Flop.
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| StarTracker wrote: | | What actually happened was he took my bait and I re-raised him all-in. He folded. |
Even as bad as I am at blowing fish off the pot, I don't even like the push. |
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Posted: Fri, 16 May 2008, 1:53pm Post subject: |
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Straight Flush
Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 6416
WPP: 65
Location: Somewhere in middle america
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Posted: Fri, 16 May 2008, 2:11pm Post subject: |
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Flush
Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Posts: 269
WPP: 70
Location: NYC
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If you have nuts there is nothing wrong with playing a big pot whenever. In fact, if your holding the nuts you'd love to play a big pot.
I wouldn't be too concerned with establishing solid reads, I would pay more attention to playing solid ABC poker to win at the $6.50s and punishing the guys for drawing incorrectly.
You tried to keep the pot small with what was at one time the nuts and prob good for at least a split at the river, only to reshove on this guy with what sounds like a marginal at best reraise later.
Get the chips when you could have earlier rather than folding and thinking about how you can get them back later with tricky resteals.
Your making this more complicated than it is. |
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Posted: Sat, 17 May 2008, 8:45am Post subject: Re: 89s First Hand |
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Flush
Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Posts: 398
WPP: 127
Location: Ohio
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| Fnord wrote: | | Monty3038 wrote: | | Maybe it is just to toughen me up... but my mentors have told me to not enter any pot I don't plan on winning... and never to limp or call. |
I hope you didn't pay a lot of money for that advice. I think I saw that written on the side of a Coke can last week...
...I think next week's run says "don't bet into a dry side pot without a very strong hand" |
Hmm... right next to the picture of my missing poker game? |
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Posted: Sat, 17 May 2008, 8:47am Post subject: |
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Flush
Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Posts: 398
WPP: 127
Location: Ohio
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Well 48o compared to a suited connector pair, obviously the suited connectors are going to be better odds... but the example with the 48o was a question about pot odds... and a poor one at that. |
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Posted: Sat, 17 May 2008, 9:38am Post subject: |
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Straight Flush
Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 6416
WPP: 65
Location: Somewhere in middle america
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