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Posted: Mon, 31 Mar 2008, 4:35pm Post subject: KQ flops two pair on scary board. |
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Flush
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 328
WPP: 202
Location: UK
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This was a 6-max $5.50 SnG. The table had been fairly tight apart from UTG who was a nutcase. Button hadn't called any raises so far I don't think. Can we be worried about AQ or AK here? His call on the flop made me think he had a draw, so what is the best move on the turn? Another pot sized bet? Button has 1110 chips remaining at this point.
Big Blind is t30 (6 handed)
SB (t1105)
BB (t1400)
UTG (t265)
MP1 (t1180)
Hero (t1850)
Button (t1400)
Preflop: Hero is CO with K  , Q  .
2 folds, Hero raises to t90, Button calls t90, 2 folds
Flop: (t225) K  , Q , A (2 players)
Hero bets t200, Button calls t200
Turn: (t625) 3  (2 players)
Hero ?? |
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Posted: Mon, 31 Mar 2008, 4:43pm Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 2864
WPP: 160
Location: Ballarat, Australia
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| I bet more on the flop and push the turn. |
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Posted: Mon, 31 Mar 2008, 5:00pm Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 1538
WPP: 116
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| flop bet is fine imo. lead turn, your ahead of lots of hands that call the flop |
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Posted: Mon, 31 Mar 2008, 5:06pm Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 2864
WPP: 160
Location: Ballarat, Australia
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| I'd bet at least pot sized on flop, maybe a slightly more like 250. A lot of scare cards can hit turn and we dont really know which ones are bad for us. |
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Posted: Mon, 31 Mar 2008, 10:46pm Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 3827
WPP: 65
Location: Stars $16 and $27 Sngs
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| Betting close to pot on the flop is good, bet 500-550 on turn, I think you are ahead often here |
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Posted: Tue, 01 Apr 2008, 8:17am Post subject: Re: KQ flops two pair on scary board. |
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Flush
Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Posts: 311
WPP: 124
Location: Ohio
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| Rage2100 wrote: | This was a 6-max $5.50 SnG. The table had been fairly tight apart from UTG who was a nutcase. Button hadn't called any raises so far I don't think. Can we be worried about AQ or AK here? His call on the flop made me think he had a draw, so what is the best move on the turn? Another pot sized bet? Button has 1110 chips remaining at this point.
Big Blind is t30 (6 handed)
SB (t1105)
BB (t1400)
UTG (t265)
MP1 (t1180)
Hero (t1850)
Button (t1400)
Preflop: Hero is CO with K , Q .
2 folds, Hero raises to t90, Button calls t90, 2 folds
Flop: (t225) K , Q , A (2 players)
Hero bets t200, Button calls t200
Turn: (t625) 3 (2 players)
Hero ?? |
I'm going to answer, then read the rest...
On the flop you are two paired, with slim straight and flush draws... I'm betting pot at this point, looking for indication of his hand... he called... but he may be holding a AT, AJ, or be looking for the flush right now sitting on 4 hearts... you indicate that he is playing tight... so he might be sitting on TJhearts...
On the turn, You're pretty much locked up as a favorite except against AK or AQ... so I'm all in.
Anyone think I'm on the right track or nuts? |
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Posted: Tue, 01 Apr 2008, 8:41am Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 3827
WPP: 65
Location: Stars $16 and $27 Sngs
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| Monty3038 wrote: | | Rage2100 wrote: | This was a 6-max $5.50 SnG. The table had been fairly tight apart from UTG who was a nutcase. Button hadn't called any raises so far I don't think. Can we be worried about AQ or AK here? His call on the flop made me think he had a draw, so what is the best move on the turn? Another pot sized bet? Button has 1110 chips remaining at this point.
Big Blind is t30 (6 handed)
SB (t1105)
BB (t1400)
UTG (t265)
MP1 (t1180)
Hero (t1850)
Button (t1400)
Preflop: Hero is CO with K , Q .
2 folds, Hero raises to t90, Button calls t90, 2 folds
Flop: (t225) K , Q , A (2 players)
Hero bets t200, Button calls t200
Turn: (t625) 3 (2 players)
Hero ?? |
I'm going to answer, then read the rest...
On the flop you are two paired, with slim straight and flush draws... I'm betting pot at this point, looking for indication of his hand... he called... but he may be holding a AT, AJ, or be looking for the flush right now sitting on 4 hearts... you indicate that he is playing tight... so he might be sitting on TJhearts...
On the turn, You're pretty much locked up as a favorite except against AK or AQ... so I'm all in.
Anyone think I'm on the right track or nuts? | If vllian has TJ hearts he has the nut str8 right now |
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Posted: Tue, 01 Apr 2008, 11:03am Post subject: |
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Flush
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 328
WPP: 202
Location: UK
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| Monty3038 wrote: | On the flop you are two paired, with slim straight and flush draws... I'm betting pot at this point, looking for indication of his hand... he called... but he may be holding a AT, AJ, or be looking for the flush right now sitting on 4 hearts... you indicate that he is playing tight... so he might be sitting on TJhearts...
On the turn, You're pretty much locked up as a favorite except against AK or AQ... so I'm all in. |
After he called my bet on the flop, I was pretty sure he was on a draw, something like AT, AJ, or two hearts, as you said. I was definitely going to bet the turn, it was the size of the bet I was needing help with mainly.
I wasn't sure if I should bet 500-550 as TLR said, or a bit more, 600-650. An all-in seemed a bit over the top to me here, although I didn't really want to see a card like the T or J if he called.
Maybe if I'd bet more on the flop, as bjsaust said, an all-in on the turn wouldn't have been so bad. |
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Posted: Wed, 02 Apr 2008, 9:03pm Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 3297
WPP: 154
Location: Ellicott City, MD
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| bjsaust wrote: | | I bet more on the flop and push the turn. |
I think you tend to overbet some of your good hands, discouraging action more than is needed.
I agree with flop as played. Turn was awesome for us. Now lead for ~500, getting everything in no matter what if called.
Edit: Bah for not reading first. |
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Posted: Wed, 02 Apr 2008, 9:15pm Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 2864
WPP: 160
Location: Ballarat, Australia
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If some good hands means all 2 pair hands, I agree  .
I always bet 2 pair hard, its the one 'good' hand that I'm happy to just take the pot now rather than build it. Usually its because I'm worried about being counterfeited, in this case its purely that I want to charge a lot with such a drawy board. |
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Posted: Wed, 02 Apr 2008, 9:33pm Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 3297
WPP: 154
Location: Ellicott City, MD
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I agree that we need to charge on the draw heavy board. That said, he rarely has more than 10 outs here, meaning he will improve roughly 20% of the time, given one card. If you get a fold from a 80/20 situation when you could have bet just a bit less and gotten a call (assuming he's still getting horrible odds), then you should probably make the bet that's getting called.
That all changes when we get to the high-blind late game play though. |
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Posted: Wed, 02 Apr 2008, 9:35pm Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 3297
WPP: 154
Location: Ellicott City, MD
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| I should probably add that needing to know where you are at in a hand is a small leak. It's overrated if you can make the right play against your opponent's range. |
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Posted: Wed, 02 Apr 2008, 10:08pm Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 2864
WPP: 160
Location: Ballarat, Australia
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Hmm, good point. I probably do tend to overcharge the turn a lot of times.
| Quote: | | I should probably add that needing to know where you are at in a hand is a small leak. It's overrated if you can make the right play against your opponent's range. |
Is that referring to this line: "I'd bet at least pot sized on flop, maybe a slightly more like 250. A lot of scare cards can hit turn and we dont really know which ones are bad for us."
I'll give that some thought, its something I picked up from NLHE T&P but I could be overapplying it, or worrying too much. |
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Posted: Wed, 02 Apr 2008, 10:36pm Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 3297
WPP: 154
Location: Ellicott City, MD
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| Yep, that's what I was referencing. I don't know how much it applies specifically to you, but there are many times I see people make mistakes as a result of that. And it sounded like you might be on the same direction of thought. |
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Posted: Wed, 02 Apr 2008, 10:47pm Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 2864
WPP: 160
Location: Ballarat, Australia
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| I guess against most opps at these levels its probably not such a big deal, they'll probably let us know what they have if a card helps them. Maybe more related to deeper stacked cash games. |
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