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Posted: Mon, 31 Dec 2007, 4:49pm Post subject: Dean's ridiculous spew |
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Full House
Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 1282
WPP: 46
Location: Gainesville
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Literally 2nd hand at table. I've been experimenting with 3betting light these isolators with mixed results.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (9 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
CO ($62.50)
Button ($256.05)
Hero ($198)
BB ($76.30)
UTG ($298.65)
UTG+1 ($242.70)
MP1 ($517.20)
MP2 ($98.85)
MP3 ($46)
Preflop: Hero is SB with A , 2.
2 folds, MP1 calls $2, MP2 calls $2, 2 folds, Button raises to $8, Hero raises to $30, 1 fold, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, Button calls $22.
Flop: ($66) 3 , 8, 2 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $64, Hero raises to $168
And another with no reads.
PokerStars Pot-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (7 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)
UTG ($156.75)
MP1 ($203.05)
MP2 ($73)
CO ($212.20)
Button ($198)
Hero ($332.85)
BB ($294.40)
Preflop: Hero is SB with  ,  . UTG posts a blind of $3.
UTG (poster) checks, 3 folds, Button raises to $10, Hero raises to $35, 1 fold, UTG folds, Button calls $25.
Flop: ($75)  ,  ,  (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $56, Hero raises to $240
Guy was an uber uber donk. Called almost everything preflop. We have no history. Note stacks.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (7 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)
UTG ($126.75)
Hero ($430.55)
MP2 ($201.65)
CO ($245.85)
Button ($191)
SB ($75)
BB ($586.90)
Preflop: Hero is MP1 with  , .
UTG calls $2, Hero raises to $10, 4 folds, BB calls $8, UTG calls $8.
Flop: ($31) ,  ,  (3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $20, BB calls $20, UTG folds.
Turn: ($71)  (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $48
Guy calls too much preflop, probably worse than average weak tight. I don't see a strong hand here because drawiness of board.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (9 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)
UTG ($73.60)
UTG+1 ($261.70)
MP1 ($368.55)
MP2 ($34)
MP3 ($40)
Hero ($215.90)
Button ($9.60)
SB ($142.10)
BB ($421.75)
Preflop: Hero is CO with  , . MP3 posts a blind of $2.
4 folds, MP3 (poster) checks, Hero raises to $10, 1 fold, SB calls $9, 1 fold, MP3 folds.
Flop: ($24)  ,  ,  (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $16, SB calls $16.
Turn: ($56)  (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.
River: ($56)  (2 players)
SB bets $24, Hero raises to $189.9 |
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Posted: Mon, 31 Dec 2007, 4:56pm Post subject: |
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Two Pair
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 40
WPP: 63
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| So what were the actual outcomes of these hands? |
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Posted: Mon, 31 Dec 2007, 5:10pm Post subject: |
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Full House
Joined: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 1279
WPP: 68
Location: the ether
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| I like hands 2&3, especially the line on the JJ77 board. The others make me feel ill, and ill-prepared for moving up anytime soon... |
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Posted: Mon, 31 Dec 2007, 5:24pm Post subject: |
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Full House
Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 1282
WPP: 46
Location: Gainesville
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| kpreston wrote: | | So what were the actual outcomes of these hands? |
I'll post them after some good discussion
| Quote: | | I like hands 2&3, especially the line on the JJ77 board. The others make me feel ill, and ill-prepared for moving up anytime soon... |
What hands do you put them on in 1&4 that would make these bad plays as compared to 2&3?
As far as being "ill-prepared" for moving up, don't worry about it, because these aren't exactly standard. |
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Posted: Mon, 31 Dec 2007, 5:36pm Post subject: |
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Two Pair
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 40
WPP: 63
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Hand 1: I'd put him on a poket pair; nothing higher than Qs.
Hand 4: I'd put him on a spade flush draw, just taking a stab at the pot. |
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Posted: Mon, 31 Dec 2007, 6:08pm Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Posts: 1702
WPP: 48
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
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| hands 1 and 2 are very nice. hands 3 and 4 are really really bad unless the villain is a terrible hand reader. |
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Posted: Mon, 31 Dec 2007, 6:12pm Post subject: |
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Two Pair
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 40
WPP: 63
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| nutsinho wrote: | | hands 1 and 2 are very nice. hands 3 and 4 are really really bad unless the villain is a terrible hand reader. |
I can see what you mean by hand 4, but how was hand 3 a bad move? If the BB didn't have a Jack, there's no reason to believe Dean didn't. He bet more than half the pot both times. |
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Posted: Mon, 31 Dec 2007, 6:28pm Post subject: |
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Full House
Joined: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 1279
WPP: 68
Location: the ether
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| Deanglow wrote: |
What hands do you put them on in 1&4 that would make these bad plays as compared to 2&3? |
ok.
Hand 1: You repped AA/AK/KK/QQ pre (down where I play anyway!). Villain has a pair. Villain was still prepared to bet pot, so I don't imagine has AK. You're behind, that's not the issue. It's whether villain is calling. I think villain will only be calling the set, so I guess on reflection you take this down most times.
Hand 2: I think this is a good steal as the call is unlikely, and even with a call you have decent outs. Villain has JQ
Hand 3: I doubt villain has a jack, so pretty much has to fold. You gotta fold to a CR though. Nice steal.
Hand 4: The raise seems too big for the pot you stand to win. Umm, lost though. Is it worth it?
| Deanglow wrote: | | As far as being "ill-prepared" for moving up, don't worry about it, because these aren't exactly standard. |
Cool. As it is, I've just moved into 50nl - and the first few thousand hands suggest that the level of play is a little better than 25nl... Up a couple of buyins so far, and feels like I'll be fine once I get comfortable there - I seem to be c-betting too infrequently and getting scared of floats... |
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Posted: Mon, 31 Dec 2007, 7:19pm Post subject: |
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Full House
Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 1282
WPP: 46
Location: Gainesville
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| nutsinho wrote: | | hands 1 and 2 are very nice. hands 3 and 4 are really really bad unless the villain is a terrible hand reader. |
This is very interesting but I'd like to hear more. I thought hand 3 was the most standard, folding out all mid/low pairs (a huge % of his range). Hand 4 it just looks sooooo much like a missed draw. |
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Posted: Mon, 31 Dec 2007, 10:43pm Post subject: |
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Full House
Joined: 30 May 2006
Posts: 1258
WPP: 120
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1. I don't like since villian is felting. Look at his bet size.
2. Probably fine. You're hoping to have some FE vs good hands, though, and I don't think you have much.
3. Checking turn is so much better because you ain't getting bluffed off your bluff catcher.
4. I don't really like it, but you probably got away with it, and it's possible a river raise is good vs this kind of villian. However, no reason in needlessly risking so much. Just raise normal size. |
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Posted: Mon, 31 Dec 2007, 10:48pm Post subject: |
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Full House
Joined: 30 May 2006
Posts: 1258
WPP: 120
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More on hand 3:
You say he's uber donk yet you're trying to get him off a small/mid pair and that's a huge part of his range. Well, 1) If he's uber donk he's not folding those, 2 ) They're not that big a part of his range since he's backwards floating (what?) with like queen high. |
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Posted: Tue, 01 Jan 2008, 8:08am Post subject: |
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Full House
Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 1282
WPP: 46
Location: Gainesville
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| Well I've heard good and bad about every hand. Any other discussion before results? |
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Posted: Tue, 01 Jan 2008, 1:21pm Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 1610
WPP: 69
Location: ontario
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1: Villain has invested the same amount to this point as the calling amount, I don't see any FE here.
2. This move looks pretty good. The problem is that you have no reads, and checking here requires knowledge of frequent flop bets after a check. I prefer a lead w/o read.
3. What wufwugy said... you have a bluff catching hand. The only reason to bet here is if you are convinced villain has: the same hand as you, 88, 99, TT. I prefer a check then a call on the river, you'll gain more value out of wearker hand and also lose the minimum against stronger ones.
4. If you don't see a strong hand here because of the drawiness of the board, why not pot the turn? Also, if you think villain is a weak player, why try to out think them by checking the turn then pushing the river? If villain is bad, don't expect a lot of FE.
I don't really like 3.5 / 4 of these. I get the feeling, however, that you had success with 3/4. |
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Posted: Tue, 01 Jan 2008, 2:20pm Post subject: |
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Full House
Joined: 30 May 2006
Posts: 1258
WPP: 120
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A donk calls hand 3 with a 88-TT every time (and 22-66 if he doesn't even know how to read the board). He has two pair and puts you on a high card or bluff because he semi-understands it's unlikely you have a boat and mainly believes that paired boards are what people bluff at.
Vs stations when you have like TT here you wanna go for maybe three but at least two barrels of value since he's calling with ace high. |
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Posted: Tue, 01 Jan 2008, 2:31pm Post subject: |
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Full House
Joined: 30 May 2006
Posts: 1258
WPP: 120
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And for stealing isolations, you should probably figure out blind restealing first. The latter is just gonna be harder because not as many players isolate marginally as you think. I don't, and I have style and image requirements to consider. I also don't think it's as profitable as purported. However, it probably becomes moreso the more aggro games get.
The pot is also a little bloated when you're stealing an isolator, and you don't really want that. Probably learn to resteal blinds and squeeze before you resteal isolators. |
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Posted: Tue, 01 Jan 2008, 2:44pm Post subject: |
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Full House
Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 1282
WPP: 46
Location: Gainesville
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| Quote: | | The pot is also a little bloated when you're stealing an isolator, and you don't really want that. Probably learn to resteal blinds and squeeze before you resteal isolators. |
I understand your point, and I am starting to think that people don't isolate even close to as light as I do. My squeezing and restealing game is definitely solid though.
| Quote: | | I don't really like 3.5 / 4 of these. I get the feeling, however, that you had success with 3/4. |
Actually I had success with 0/4
Hand 1 he tanked and called with QQ
Hand 2 instacalled with QQ
Hand 3 he checkminraised and I folded
Hand 4 he called pretty quick with AQos.
Man these games are way too tight. Still made 10bi in last 2 days despite these though due to ridiculously awesomeness of games. |
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Posted: Tue, 01 Jan 2008, 3:08pm Post subject: |
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Full House
Joined: 30 May 2006
Posts: 1258
WPP: 120
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| Deanglow wrote: | | Quote: | | The pot is also a little bloated when you're stealing an isolator, and you don't really want that. Probably learn to resteal blinds and squeeze before you resteal isolators. |
I understand your point, and I am starting to think that people don't isolate even close to as light as I do. My squeezing and restealing game is definitely solid though. |
Post some examples you like? |
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Posted: Tue, 01 Jan 2008, 3:49pm Post subject: |
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Two Pair
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 40
WPP: 63
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| kpreston wrote: | | Hand 1: I'd put him on a poket pair; nothing higher than Qs. |
Woot woot! Called it!  |
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