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Posted: Wed, 09 May 2007, 5:29am Post subject: Difficult post flop decisions
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One Pair
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 612
WPP: 107
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Villain is 25/16, tough regular. Does not like to give away pots. Seen him raise light from UTG countless times. I had AJs, which is garbage here, but decided to mix it up and isolate (usually I would of course fold). My image is TAG.
(Ongame) Texas Hold'em $10-$10 NL (real money)
Seat 1: SB ($2,526 in chips)
Seat 2: BB ($985 in chips)
Seat 3: UTG ($1345 in chips)
Seat 4: Hero ($1120 in chips)
Seat 5: EP3 ($765 in chips)
Seat 6: MP1 ($935 in chips)
Seat 7: MP2 ($660 in chips)
Seat 8: MP3 ($1490 in chips)
Seat 9: CO ($1167 in chips)
Seat 10: button ($2088 in chips)
Dealt to Hero: AdJd
ANTES/BLINDS
SB posts blind ($5), BB posts blind ($10).
PRE-FLOP
UTG bets $30, Hero raises to $85, EP3 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, button folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls.
FLOP [board cards 2h,Th,Js ]
UTG checks, Hero bets $155, UTG calls.
TURN [board cards 2h,Th,Js,3c ]
UTG checks, Hero checks.
RIVER [board cards 2h,Th,Js,3c,7h ]
UTG bets 350, Hero...
Should I let him have it? For most this probably looks like instafold, but anyone think I should call (845 in the pot, 350 to call)?
What about the turn, should I have fired a second barrel (bluff to get QQ/KK to fold and also to prevent draws)? What do you put villain on here? |
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Posted: Wed, 09 May 2007, 11:31am Post subject:
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Almost as bad as that idiot redgrape
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 6152
WPP: 73
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| I fold but there's no doubt i fire another barrel on turn. |
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Posted: Wed, 09 May 2007, 12:31pm Post subject:
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EAT BUGS
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 7812
WPP: 51
Location: trying to live
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| dont like preflop at all, it just ends up getting you into these spots postflop |
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Posted: Wed, 09 May 2007, 12:48pm Post subject:
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HABITUAL LINE-STEPPER
Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 5253
WPP: 73
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
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You have tptk in a 3bet pot vs an aggressive player when the turn went check check, and your getting ok pot odds.
I don't think you can put him on having a flush, because most of the suited cards he's calling a reraise with preflop are check/shoving this flop. I suppose he could be making a legitimate value bet with QQ or KK.
I'd call. |
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Posted: Thu, 10 May 2007, 2:59am Post subject:
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One Pair
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 612
WPP: 107
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| gabe wrote: | | dont like preflop at all, it just ends up getting you into these spots postflop |
Absolutely true of course. Here I was just mixing it up so that I would get action with my legitimate hands. I reraise EP with any two suited cards every so often (knowingly unprofitably). Usually I'm hoping to flop a draw and move in, but with this flop a shove was pretty much out of the question with only 2-5 outs against his calling range. Suited connectors are of course better for this purpose... |
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Posted: Thu, 10 May 2007, 3:12am Post subject:
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One Pair
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 612
WPP: 107
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| Renton wrote: |
I don't think you can put him on having a flush, because most of the suited cards he's calling a reraise with preflop are check/shoving this flop. I suppose he could be making a legitimate value bet with QQ or KK.
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Indeed, it was hard to put him on a flush, and I don't think he would have played KK like a scared mouse... Very often I'm checking AA on the turn in position to induce a bluff on the river, so value betting QQ with 3/4 pot is pretty marginal also. |
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Posted: Sun, 13 May 2007, 5:42pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 1965
WPP: 55
Location: Dizzy
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| i dont see why you wouldnt bet the turn when there are so many draws in his range and you gave him such good odds to call preflop and hes loose preflop |
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Posted: Mon, 14 May 2007, 2:58am Post subject:
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One Pair
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 612
WPP: 107
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| sauce123 wrote: | | i dont see why you wouldnt bet the turn when there are so many draws in his range and you gave him such good odds to call preflop and hes loose preflop |
For pot control mostly. I didn't put him on a draw and I really felt like I was behind after he called the flop bet.
I think giving a freecard on the turn with position is often a decent play, especially if I cant be certain that I have the best hand. It very often induces a bluff, which I can then call with the same price (or sometimes less) that the turn bet would have cost me. |
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Posted: Mon, 14 May 2007, 3:13am Post subject:
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One Pair
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 612
WPP: 107
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Thanks for all the comments, I realize from sauce's post that I should have given worse odds preflop. Post flop I had many marginal decisions, so it was nice to hear your thoughts.
Conclusion:
I called the river and he showed down 8s9s for the rivered straight. |
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Posted: Mon, 14 May 2007, 10:19am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 1965
WPP: 55
Location: Dizzy
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| pocket fours- for future reference i think the only part of his PF raising range he folds to such a small raise is the KQ, AQ, KJ, KT type of hands because of reverse implied, but u r getting called by any pair or any suited connector which is y i recommend denying him odds on the turn. |
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Posted: Mon, 14 May 2007, 2:19pm Post subject:
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One Pair
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 612
WPP: 107
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| sauce123 wrote: | | pocket fours- for future reference i think the only part of his PF raising range he folds to such a small raise is the KQ, AQ, KJ, KT type of hands because of reverse implied, but u r getting called by any pair or any suited connector which is y i recommend denying him odds on the turn. |
Who raises KQ, KJ, KT utg anyway? 
I'm not sure I would call this reraise preflop with suited connector oop. I like playing my connectors in position only. Is that a big mistake? Should I always call reraises with connectors oop, or just occasionally?
I'm around 18/9 ten handed so my ep raises are usually reraised by AK or JJ+ only, so I should have really good IO at least... |
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Posted: Mon, 14 May 2007, 6:09pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 1965
WPP: 55
Location: Dizzy
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pocket fours- Im not saying that calling a small raise oop with connectors is +ev, there are a ton of factors which amount to "sometimes it is, sometimes it isnt" depending on opponent, stack sizes, metagame etc. What im saying is that if we put ourselves in the mindset of a:
"Villain is 25/16, tough regular. Does not like to give away pots. Seen him raise light from UTG countless times. I had AJs, which is garbage here, but decided to mix it up and isolate (usually I would of course fold). My image is TAG."
hes probably thinking a few things about you
1) ur raising with AK, AQs, JJ+.
2) u guys r slightly over 100 BB deep
3) he thinks he can outplay u postflop most likely
4) because of 1,2,3 he thinks his implied odds r most likely stacks
Therefore hes not gonna lay down any hand with str8/flush/set value to you when you lay him this price which is why you have to make a big bet on the turn as you are crushing his range here and you may even get some value off of KJ QJs if he decides to play them (which he wont if hes good, but whatever). |
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Posted: Tue, 15 May 2007, 3:22am Post subject:
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One Pair
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 612
WPP: 107
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| sauce123 wrote: | pocket fours- Im not saying that calling a small raise oop with connectors is +ev, there are a ton of factors which amount to "sometimes it is, sometimes it isnt" depending on opponent, stack sizes, metagame etc. What im saying is that if we put ourselves in the mindset of a:
"Villain is 25/16, tough regular. Does not like to give away pots. Seen him raise light from UTG countless times. I had AJs, which is garbage here, but decided to mix it up and isolate (usually I would of course fold). My image is TAG."
hes probably thinking a few things about you
1) ur raising with AK, AQs, JJ+.
2) u guys r slightly over 100 BB deep
3) he thinks he can outplay u postflop most likely
4) because of 1,2,3 he thinks his implied odds r most likely stacks
Therefore hes not gonna lay down any hand with str8/flush/set value to you when you lay him this price which is why you have to make a big bet on the turn as you are crushing his range here and you may even get some value off of KJ QJs if he decides to play them (which he wont if hes good, but whatever). |
I clearly didn't think that I'm far ahead of his range, which in hindsight seems quite obvious... Thanks for your help sauce |
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Posted: Wed, 30 May 2007, 12:32pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1340
WPP: 113
Location: surfing in a room
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| sauce123 wrote: |
Therefore hes not gonna lay down any hand with str8/flush/set value to you when you lay him this price |
what would be the wrong price for scīs under these circumstances? |
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Posted: Tue, 03 Jul 2007, 10:27pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 30 May 2006
Posts: 1333
WPP: 144
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PF - Raise more, dlo. Shouldn't be standard, but can see occasionally 3betting AJs here.
Turn - At much lower stakes, mind you, I've seen many river bluffs induced by checking IP in similar situations. Checking also keeps us from getting bluffed out, which I have also surprisingly witnessed a few times.
IMO, pot control is underrated at FR. I could be quite wrong about that, though, as I'm not that good. |
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