| What do you call with? |
| AA and KK only |
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22% |
[ 17 ] |
| JJ+ |
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22% |
[ 17 ] |
| TT+, AK |
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22% |
[ 17 ] |
| 88+, AQ+ |
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15% |
[ 12 ] |
| 66+, AT+ |
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11% |
[ 9 ] |
| 44+, A7+, KJ+ |
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5% |
[ 4 ] |
| 22+, A2+, KT+, QJ |
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1% |
[ 1 ] |
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| Total Votes : 77 |
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Posted: Wed, 27 Jun 2007, 3:55am Post subject: The classic bubble situation: what hands do you call with?
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Straight Flush
Joined: 07 Jul 2005
Posts: 8428
WPP: 132
Location: Sydney
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Apologies, this will be old hat to some of you but I thought that since there are some newer posters here I'd bring up this old chestnut. Without looking at SNGPT/SNG Wiz, what hands are you calling with here?
Reads: CO has gone berserk on the bubble, having open shoved the last 6 hands where he/she was first in the pot. SB and BB are tight but have shoved in the obvious spots (eg. when folded to them when they are in the SB).
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (4 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
CO (t5500)
Hero (t4000)
SB (t2000)
BB (t2000)
Preflop: Hero is Button with [two cards]
CO raises to t5500, Hero calls t4000 and is all-in... |
Last edited by taipan168 on Wed, 27 Jun 2007, 7:42am; edited 1 time in total
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Posted: Wed, 27 Jun 2007, 6:23am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 3580
WPP: 80
Location: emo-kid
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| haven't played SnGs in a while, but i think because of the stack sizes of the blinds, we have to call really tight here...i'm thinking (b). |
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Posted: Wed, 27 Jun 2007, 6:52am Post subject:
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Straight Flush
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 4213
WPP: 64
Location: Stars $16 and $27 Sngs
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CO has shoved the last 6 hands, which means that he either has an amazing run of cards or is pretty much shoving ATC.
SB and BB are tight, but they have a pretty low M, M<3.5, so they must call with any decent hand.
I think I am between d and e, I probably call 77+ and AJ+, with 66 and AT are marginal for me |
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Posted: Wed, 27 Jun 2007, 7:17am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 3300
WPP: 85
Location: Dublin
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no im with option b), i think we hurt ourselves by opening up too much with non paired hands.
88+i guess is fine too but unpaired hands arent dominating him enough for me. basically i dont wanna flip vs him, i wanna dominate.
this is a good thread idea. i stay tight and let shorties go crazy, they also know he has shoved ATC 6 times and thye are both blinds |
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Posted: Wed, 27 Jun 2007, 7:26am Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 24 Jan 2006
Posts: 981
WPP: 178
Location: Sweden
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I think I'd try to hold to B.
I don't feel the need take a 60/40 on the bubble. |
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Posted: Wed, 27 Jun 2007, 7:32am Post subject:
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Straight Flush
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 4213
WPP: 64
Location: Stars $16 and $27 Sngs
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| BTW any way to convert it to a poll once you posted it ? |
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Posted: Wed, 27 Jun 2007, 7:42am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 3823
WPP: 142
Location: Ballarat, Australia
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| I'd say e is good for a call, but he's the bigstack and we're looking very healthy compared to the two shortstacks, so I'm settling on a and being a nit. |
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Posted: Wed, 27 Jun 2007, 7:44am Post subject:
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Straight Flush
Joined: 07 Jul 2005
Posts: 8428
WPP: 132
Location: Sydney
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| TLR wrote: | | BTW any way to convert it to a poll once you posted it ? |
Mods can do anything  |
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Posted: Wed, 27 Jun 2007, 7:49am Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 887
WPP: 146
Location: Dallas, TX
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| TLR wrote: |
I think I am between d and e, I probably call 77+ and AJ+, with 66 and AT are marginal for me | |
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Posted: Wed, 27 Jun 2007, 7:58am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 3823
WPP: 142
Location: Ballarat, Australia
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| rubixstreub wrote: | | TLR wrote: |
I think I am between d and e, I probably call 77+ and AJ+, with 66 and AT are marginal for me | |
Lets think about it though. BB is 400, so on PokerStars that means you have I think 700 in ante's and blinds each round. That puts 2 shortstacks on an M of 3 and you're on the bubble. At least one if not both of them should probably call this push. If they dont, they need to move soon and you should be ITM shortly.
This isnt just about what range you put him on and what range is good v's that, its about whether you'll risk an almost certain ITM finish on this call. |
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Posted: Wed, 27 Jun 2007, 8:00am Post subject:
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Straight Flush
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 4213
WPP: 64
Location: Stars $16 and $27 Sngs
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| bjsaust wrote: | | rubixstreub wrote: | | TLR wrote: |
I think I am between d and e, I probably call 77+ and AJ+, with 66 and AT are marginal for me | |
Lets think about it though. BB is 400, so on PokerStars that means you have I think 700 in ante's and blinds each round. That puts 2 shortstacks on an M of 3 and you're on the bubble. At least one if not both of them should probably call this push. If they dont, they need to move soon and you should be ITM shortly.
This isnt just about what range you put him on and what range is good v's that, its about whether you'll risk an almost certain ITM finish on this call. | As a rule of thumb I rather get knocked out on 4th shooting for 1st then settling for 3rd |
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Posted: Wed, 27 Jun 2007, 8:15am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 2825
WPP: 116
Location: GO BUCKS!
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| You don't want to bubble out in this spot. I go with b or a. |
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Posted: Wed, 27 Jun 2007, 8:24am Post subject:
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Straight Flush
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 4213
WPP: 64
Location: Stars $16 and $27 Sngs
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| taipan168 wrote: | | TLR wrote: | | BTW any way to convert it to a poll once you posted it ? |
Mods can do anything |
Can you time travel ?
 |
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Posted: Wed, 27 Jun 2007, 8:31am Post subject:
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Straight Flush
Joined: 07 Jul 2005
Posts: 8428
WPP: 132
Location: Sydney
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| TLR wrote: | | taipan168 wrote: | | TLR wrote: | | BTW any way to convert it to a poll once you posted it ? |
Mods can do anything |
Can you time travel ?
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Unfortunately that is just beyond the reach of my magical powers... |
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Posted: Wed, 27 Jun 2007, 8:34am Post subject:
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Straight Flush
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 4213
WPP: 64
Location: Stars $16 and $27 Sngs
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| taipan168 wrote: | | TLR wrote: | | taipan168 wrote: | | TLR wrote: | | BTW any way to convert it to a poll once you posted it ? |
Mods can do anything |
Can you time travel ?
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Unfortunately that is just beyond the reach of my magical powers... | too bad... |
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Posted: Wed, 27 Jun 2007, 8:37am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 3823
WPP: 142
Location: Ballarat, Australia
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Posted: Wed, 27 Jun 2007, 8:44am Post subject:
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Straight Flush
Joined: 07 Jul 2005
Posts: 8428
WPP: 132
Location: Sydney
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| TLR wrote: | | As a rule of thumb I rather get knocked out on 4th shooting for 1st then settling for 3rd |
Sometimes this is good play, sometimes it's bad, but I don't think you can generalise. If the SB had 100 chips left after posting the SB do you still shoot for 1st? |
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Posted: Wed, 27 Jun 2007, 9:26am Post subject:
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Straight Flush
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 4213
WPP: 64
Location: Stars $16 and $27 Sngs
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| taipan168 wrote: | | TLR wrote: | | As a rule of thumb I rather get knocked out on 4th shooting for 1st then settling for 3rd |
Sometimes this is good play, sometimes it's bad, but I don't think you can generalise. If the SB had 100 chips left after posting the SB do you still shoot for 1st? | I agree, as with anything else in poker, it depends.
Overall when you start an Sng your goal is to get 1st and not ITM |
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Posted: Wed, 27 Jun 2007, 11:06am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 3332
WPP: 145
Location: spreading fert
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personally, i only dabble with tourneys, but have had some success.
i am a nit, typically, but this guy is pushing everything he can abusing the bubble...no time to be a nit, if i have something decent.
i like TT+, so i chose C, but i would open my range off of AK+, too. not much, just down to AJs+, AQo+.
the real question, to me, is...how was he before the bubble? in the early going, if you got to see him?
if he was loose there, too, i would definitely look him up with TT+, AJs+, AQo+. if not, i would lean towards AK,JJ+.
i would prefer to be suited, too, with the shortys possibly calling. |
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Posted: Wed, 27 Jun 2007, 6:59pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 2010
WPP: 96
Location: AFK.
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Posted: Wed, 27 Jun 2007, 7:13pm Post subject:
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Straight Flush
Joined: 07 Jul 2005
Posts: 8428
WPP: 132
Location: Sydney
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I am going to throw the cat amongst the pigeons.
It is incorrect to call with any of the unpaired hands, including AK.
Discuss. |
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Posted: Wed, 27 Jun 2007, 7:22pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 2010
WPP: 96
Location: AFK.
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You said it best taipan:
| taipan168 wrote: | | ...in this situation, you don't f**k with the big stack unless you have a real hand... |
Very true. So unless you have (a), easy fold. |
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Posted: Wed, 27 Jun 2007, 7:28pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 2992
WPP: 111
Location: at your tables, calling your bets
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Why do people have a "play for first" point of view? It seems like it comes from the Ripptyde school of playing poker to validate your ego instead of to make money. I however do play for money, and if you believe in ICM then calling with AK is mathematically incorrect against any range of hands he could have.
JJ+ |
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Posted: Wed, 27 Jun 2007, 7:40pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 2825
WPP: 116
Location: GO BUCKS!
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| mcatdog wrote: | Why do people have a "play for first" point of view? It seems like it comes from the Ripptyde school of playing poker to validate your ego instead of to make money. I however do play for money, and if you believe in ICM then calling with AK is mathematically incorrect against any range of hands he could have.
JJ+ |
Nice post. |
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Posted: Wed, 27 Jun 2007, 8:16pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 3580
WPP: 80
Location: emo-kid
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in this case i'm disagreeing with ICM. how the hell can you fold AK in this spot???
 
like..look how puuurrrrty it is |
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Posted: Wed, 27 Jun 2007, 8:40pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 3332
WPP: 145
Location: spreading fert
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i cant see why you guys are getting so tight on this bubble... vs THIS villain's track record.
i get that you should only call someone who has you covered w/ a real hand, but...
this guy has pushed the last 6 hands he opened. he clearly doesnt have the goods every every time he's is pushing.
i dont think you can just let this guy do whatever he wants with whatever hand he wants just because he's pushing his big pennis all over the place.
if you are dealt a relatively strong hand...CALL HIM. sure, he may have bullets, but given his track record, you have to be the better hand the majority of the time...so long as you are being somewhat choosy.
you double yourself up here, and cripple him, most times, imo. that clearly puts you in the drivers seat for the rest of the tourney...as well as gets the bubble popped by the very fool trying to keep it from happening any time soon. |
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Posted: Wed, 27 Jun 2007, 8:47pm Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 409
WPP: 83
Location: NY
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Understand I am coming in a tad late. I'm sticking with B, maybe even A.
Object of S/G's is to make the money. It's a much higher % payout than simply making the money in a MTT. |
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