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Posted: Fri, 30 Mar 2007, 1:45pm Post subject: Im a calling station-but i dont have a better line |
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Flush
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 397
WPP: 122
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Stage #617668411: Holdem No Limit $0.25 - 2007-03-30 16:41:47 (ET)
Table: CHARLESTON DR (Real Money) Seat #2 is the dealer
Seat 2 - BROKENJOKE ($6.75 in chips)
Seat 3 - PETEN2TOMS ($51.55 in chips)
Seat 4 - SC1733 ($61.65 in chips)
Seat 5 - ANDREW_CBR ($48.70 in chips)
Seat 6 - BULLSFAN1227 ($27.30 in chips)
Seat 1 - EVILGAVIN ($68.35 in chips)
PETEN2TOMS - Posts small blind $0.10
SC1733 - Posts big blind $0.25
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to BULLSFAN1227 [Ah Jc]
ANDREW_CBR - Folds
BULLSFAN1227 - Raises $1 to $1
EVILGAVIN - Folds
BROKENJOKE - Calls $1
PETEN2TOMS - Calls $0.90
SC1733 - Folds
*** FLOP *** [Qs As 4s]
PETEN2TOMS - Bets $2.75
BULLSFAN1227 - Calls $2.75
BROKENJOKE - Folds
*** TURN *** [Qs As 4s] [2c]
PETEN2TOMS - Bets $6.50
BULLSFAN1227 - Calls $6.50
*** RIVER *** [Qs As 4s 2c] [Ac]
PETEN2TOMS - Bets $14
BULLSFAN1227 - Calls $14 |
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Posted: Fri, 30 Mar 2007, 9:14pm Post subject: |
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Crazy Canadian Courtiebwnage
Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 2149
WPP: 102
Location: xianti made me do it
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| I think you need to raise the flop. Maybe to $7? |
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Posted: Fri, 30 Mar 2007, 9:24pm Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 1555
WPP: 84
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reads help a lot, but assuming no reads i think this is alright. i might fold on the turn, since draws and worse hands prob check-call or lead weaker rather than lead strongly again.
raising flop i think is just as good as playing it like this, but it sucks if opp would 3bet u on a draw on the flop. |
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Posted: Fri, 30 Mar 2007, 9:51pm Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 02 May 2006
Posts: 3430
WPP: 60
Location: TAGfishery
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| i dont think this is a bad line. Either fold turn or call down. |
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Posted: Fri, 30 Mar 2007, 9:56pm Post subject: |
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pwns WCOOP
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 5785
WPP: 73
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| ill fold the flop a lot. Try to get at least stats or reads. |
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Posted: Fri, 30 Mar 2007, 10:56pm Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 3008
WPP: 88
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Posted: Fri, 30 Mar 2007, 11:18pm Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 04 Jul 2006
Posts: 3999
WPP: 79
Location: Pwnsylvania
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Raising the flop allows us to get 3bet AI a lot though eh?
Call and evaluate turn, then fold. |
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Posted: Fri, 30 Mar 2007, 11:29pm Post subject: |
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Full House
Joined: 19 May 2006
Posts: 722
WPP: 43
Location: Philly
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I don't see anything wrong with this hand really. Its hard to know the perfect line without a read.
You could argue for a turn fold. If you call the turn you need to call the river though imo. |
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Posted: Sat, 31 Mar 2007, 1:47am Post subject: |
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Crazy Canadian Courtiebwnage
Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 2149
WPP: 102
Location: xianti made me do it
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When I replied I didn't even realize it was a 3 flush flop. GG my HH reading skills.
Despite all the replies though, I don't understand why just calling and giving him free cards after he bets OOP on the flop is good. Someone please explain because I feel like a big fish right now for not getting it. |
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Posted: Sat, 31 Mar 2007, 11:24am Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 3008
WPP: 88
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| courtiebee wrote: | When I replied I didn't even realize it was a 3 flush flop. GG my HH reading skills.
Despite all the replies though, I don't understand why just calling and giving him free cards after he bets OOP on the flop is good. Someone please explain because I feel like a big fish right now for not getting it. | At nl25 most ppl are donks.
When villain bets into you on the monotone board we can guess that they either have :
-bare flushdraw (prob K high)
-2 pair (unlikely except for A4)
-Ax (almost never a better ace than ours since villain smooth-called preflop)
-set
-flopped flush
-random weird senseless hand (think 99 w 9s or something)
After villain leads into us with this range, what will raising accomplish, assuming we're folding to a push?
-it'll cost us about 35bb's (assuming we make it like 8-9$ to go), which is really annoying as a spew if we're often folding to villain's push
-it'll push villain off of his weird/lame hands (unless they're a total fish)
-best case scenario villain flat-calls, we successfully put him on a FD. Even then, villain still stands to win a huge pot if a spade comes. Also if he makes a big bluff we have to fold almost always since we only have... a bluff-catcher on this board.
In a tourney a solid case can be made for raise-fold (assuming we know villain's range will be bluffs which they fold to our raise and monsters which they felt... even that's kind of debatable) in order to protect our hand when ahead and easily fold it when behind.
In cash, in position, so many times a villain will give up on a later street. Also, assuming villain's leads into us include monsters that don't have a spade in them, calling also lets us make a lots of profitable bluffs on laters streets when a spade does fall and villain will be hard-pressed to call (even with a set) on a 4-flush board.
Basically, calling gives us more options in position. On a board like this, the strength of our hand is somewhat meaningless when we're in position. We can do so many things... plus we have a hand with showdown value to boot.
Raising gives the options back to villain. When we flat call he'll be forced to allow us to play perfectly on later streets since he'll almost always :
-bet out when another spade hits, indicating he flopped the big flush = we fold EZ
-check when another spade hits = we get to steal the pot since his low flush/set/2 pair is now scared, plus our hand LOOKS like a draw
-bet out when a spade doesn't hit, indicating he really likes his hand = we can call if we think our hand might be best with our decent kicker or fold and give up the pot.
edit : this long-winded blurb could be much longer, but I think that's pretty much the jist of it. |
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Posted: Sat, 31 Mar 2007, 6:21pm Post subject: |
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Crazy Canadian Courtiebwnage
Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 2149
WPP: 102
Location: xianti made me do it
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| Makes perfect sense. Thanks for the great response, I appreciate it. |
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