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Poker Forum
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Posted: Sat, 31 Mar 2007, 2:03am Post subject: 3 more $100NL hands, this time from Stars |
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Crazy Canadian Courtiebwnage
Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 2149
WPP: 102
Location: xianti made me do it
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1) No reads. He hasn't raised a hand yet preflop, but I've only played 15 hands with him so far. Line check.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Hero ($119.20)
SB ($114.80)
BB ($97)
UTG ($128.40)
MP ($312.55)
CO ($91.40)
Preflop: Hero is Button with Q , Q .
1 fold, MP calls $1, CO calls $1, Hero raises to $6, 2 folds, MP calls $5, CO folds.
Flop: ($14.50) 7 , 2, 2 (2 players)
MP bets $10, Hero raises to $28, MP calls $18.
Turn: ($70.50) 5 (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $35, MP calls $35.
River: ($140.50) 6 (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $50.2 (All-In)
2) Okay now I've already discussed this hand for a considerable amount of time with Lukie, but I thought I'd post it anyway for people to comment on. The villian hasn't been out of line at all, even though he's opened up a little bit since the table became 3-handed. I realize now that a flop raise is bad and that I should have just called the c bet. As played though, I am wondering how bad my turn push is. Really horrible? I despise it in hindsight after I think to myself what he is folding to my push and what he is calling. Is it ever right to push this turn for value though? Not that there'd be any reason to think that I'm pushing for value in this hand ...
Anyway my brain hurts. Sorry. Here's the hand. Looking for constructive comments, not "omg you play so bad, why'd you raise the flop" because I've already had those comments  Hell, maybe there isn't anything more constructive to say about this hand and I'm posting it for nothing ... gah.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (3 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Hero ($248.55)
SB ($103.25)
BB ($199.10)
Preflop: Hero is Button with T, A.
Hero raises to $4, 1 fold, BB raises to $14, Hero calls $10.
Flop: ($28.50) J, A, 3 (2 players)
BB bets $18, Hero raises to $45, BB calls $27.
Turn: ($118.50) 8 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $189.55 (All-In)
3) His stats are 23/17/1.3 over 173 hands. Look, I am a tournament donk ... Now that I've gone and done this, what's actually standard PF if you only know these stats and you don't have any solid reads?
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Hero ($104.45)
MP ($102.05)
CO ($117.45)
Button ($125.80)
SB ($99)
BB ($56.55)
Preflop: Hero is UTG with A, K.
Hero raises to $4, MP calls $4, 2 folds, SB raises to $15, 1 fold, Hero raises to $104.45 |
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Posted: Sat, 31 Mar 2007, 3:58am Post subject: |
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Where's the AI button!?
Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Posts: 4481
WPP: 88
Location: TagFish
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Hand 1 is standard.
Hand 2 I'd fold preflop. You know raising flop is bad, but pushing turn and checking behind are both good options, with checking behind my #1 choice.
Hand 3 is pretty spewy. You raise UTG and SB Reraises, this is never a squeeze and I'd just fold preflop. |
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Posted: Sat, 31 Mar 2007, 8:28am Post subject: |
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Flush
Joined: 02 Mar 2005
Posts: 447
WPP: 84
Location: St. Paul or DC
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| Hand 3 is really transparent as AK so it allows all of your opps to play perfectly: AA/KK call, AQ- folds |
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Posted: Sat, 31 Mar 2007, 9:23am Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
Posts: 1715
WPP: 136
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| elipsesjeff wrote: | Hand 1 is standard.
Hand 2 I'd fold preflop. You know raising flop is bad, but pushing turn and checking behind are both good options, with checking behind my #1 choice.
Hand 3 is pretty spewy. You raise UTG and SB Reraises, this is never a squeeze and I'd just fold preflop. |
I really disagree with a lot of this.
First hand, the general line may be alright, but given stacks, pot size, etc. I do not think this is standard. PF and Flop are good, on the turn we have like $85 left and the pot is 70, I think we should either shove or check behind. Betting such a small amount, leaving us an even smaller amount on the river just doesnt make a ton of sense to me. Basically decided what to do depends a lot on your opponent. If they are aggressive, I probably check behind and if they are passive I probably shove.
Second hand, we are 200BB deep, I dont see anything wrong with calling a 3bet in a blind steal situation with this hand. However, when we call with this hand, I dont think we can play it this way. On the flop you obviously arent folding to the bet, but just call it [wont go into that too much more because you said you understand that]. What sort of hands can we put villain on in this hand? PF there is a wide range and after he cbets that doesnt narrow it _too_ much, but after he calls our raise, there isnt a ton he can have. AA, JJ, and AJ are huge possibilities, but given we hold an A it discounts the AA a lot and also partly the AJ. He could also have something like 33 some percent of the time and maybe sometimes he is calling with like KK. Regardless though, on that turn we are basically just folding the random hands that we are ahead of anyways [like KK]. The only better hand we may fold is AQ, but Im not sure it even makes it that far. I dont think pushing is a good option as ellipses suggests as we have horrible equity against our opponents calling range and since his calling range is such a big part of his entire range, we have horrible fold equity.
Shoving AK is alright if you are going to balance it with like KK and Axs, but I dont know how much that is something you are going to want to do. Given that the SB isnt crazy aggressive and you raised UTG, he wont be doing this too lightly, but it is possible. I dont hate a fold but dont think a call is too horrible. Shoving IMO is probably my least favorite option in this spot and I think the differences between folding and calling are fairly marginal, but folding is probably best without a better read. |
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Posted: Sat, 31 Mar 2007, 9:47am Post subject: |
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pwns WCOOP
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 5785
WPP: 73
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Hand 2: Easy flop call.
Hand 3: fine |
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Posted: Sat, 31 Mar 2007, 10:06am Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 02 May 2006
Posts: 3430
WPP: 60
Location: TAGfishery
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hand 1: standard
hand 2: flat call flop
hand 3: i think a flat call is fine here in position. |
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Posted: Sat, 31 Mar 2007, 1:56pm Post subject: |
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Where's the AI button!?
Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Posts: 4481
WPP: 88
Location: TagFish
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| andy-akb wrote: |
First hand, the general line may be alright, but given stacks, pot size, etc. I do not think this is standard. PF and Flop are good, on the turn we have like $85 left and the pot is 70, I think we should either shove or check behind. Betting such a small amount, leaving us an even smaller amount on the river just doesnt make a ton of sense to me. Basically decided what to do depends a lot on your opponent. If they are aggressive, I probably check behind and if they are passive I probably shove.
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What is Villain's hand range here? I'd say 44-TT and a FD (and a very unlikely 2) and after he calls the flop raise its 77, a 2, or the FD, with the FD the most likely. Betting the turn 1/2 pot isn't THAT bad if you don't plan on paying off a flush, I'd personally had bet 40-45 but that isn't up for discussion. We're trying to get value out of the flush draw before it comes in because if you we check behind we lose a ton of value that villain would have called the turn with. Unless the club comes in I'm getting stacked here and if we push our villain correctly folds, when he would call without odds.
| Quote: |
Second hand, we are 200BB deep, I dont see anything wrong with calling a 3bet in a blind steal situation with this hand. |
Calling with this hand in a RR pot is rather spewy, we don't want to flop an ace because our kicker is dominated and we likely wont get paid by the flush. Villain isn't out of line so I'd just wait for a better spot. You see a lot of players overvaluing their position in RR pots, and getting in spots like this is why you should just fold preflop. You have some folding equity on this board, you may get an AQ to fold and another AT, but AJ and AK is stacking off here. I believe I said I prefer a check/behind but pushing works well for your image too, plus you likely have 12 outs so if he does make a massive call you're still 25% to win a monster pot. |
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Posted: Sat, 31 Mar 2007, 2:01pm Post subject: |
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Full House
Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 1414
WPP: 94
Location: Toronto'ish
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Hand 1: I don't mind, its value bet central, until you commit him
Hand 2: I think I often flat call that flop and check through the turn. As played, after raising that flop I think I would still check through the turn.
Hand 3: I flat call AK in position, or sometimes 4-bet, but I don't push since I don't push AA/KK either really (4-bet with them as well) |
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