NLHE T&P - Week 12 Discussion p. 252-258

*Last edited by zook on Mon, 26 Mar 2007, 12:07pm; edited 1 time in total*

1. Concept 16: Occasionally overbet with moderate hands to disguise your overbets with excellent hands. Do you do this? Thoughts?

2. Concept 17: If your preflop raise is called behind you, check a lot of flops. This is an eye-opener to me. I take almost the opposite approach, b/c I feel like if I didn't hit the flop and don't show strength it's going to be almost impossible to win the pot. And if I did hit TPGK and c/c or c/r, the pot size could get out of hand before I know I'm beat (whereas if I bet and get raised on the flop or turn I can get away more easily than if I check and villain bets). I know my thinking is flawed here, and I shouldn't be c-betting anywhere close to as much as I do OOP. Thoughts about this concept? OOP lines vs. different villains on different boards?

3. Concept 20: Sometimes you should limp behind limpers with pocket aces. Shocked

And some good reminders:

1) I honestly don't know yet if Sklanksky's thoughts transfer over to SHNL Online because of the stakes I play. Gabe made a good post in the SHNL Forum about this, noticing that every time he called the over-bet bet it was the nuts or close to it...Doing this at NL100 will be the death of you most of the time because people slow-play so much, there's no real metagame factors to worry about because you're playing with different people all the time, and because a 3/4's size pot bet will accomplish the same thing.

In live full-ring games this can definitely work a higher % of the time depending on your image, and especially when you're playing with the same players for hours and hours.

2) Depends on how aggressive my opponents are, what they're possibly holding, etc. Too much "it depends" and not enough time for me to write out my thoughts.....but I too am usually leading out on a board like that OOP.

3) In full-ring games, with aggressive players behind you, and players limping that will call raises in front of you this can be an excellent play. It'll look more like 99/TT and be disguised very well, often getting players to call and/or push with hands we have crushed.

I don't think that applies to SHNL, though, unless you're in the right game...

#16--almost ever. I overbet the nuts on the river, but I don't do it with a moderate hand much. This concept does make sense if you think about it, though.

#17--I have been doing this a little more, especially short handed. Against the more aggro players we are facing in this climate, cbetting flops OOP is almost asking to get raised. Of course, sometimes that is what you want, but more often playing OOP on a whiffed board is painful. Check raises carry more weight when you check more flops, as well.

#20--He does mention just to do this as a change up, and definitely NOT to do it if you can't get away from them postflop. I think this just makes postflop day more difficult, so I don't limp AA but once in a blue moon....

#16 i never overbet

#17 i like this idea and do it all the time, oop i cbet 30-35% flops. against passive opp you´ll get called way too often, faced with a growing pot and without a clue where you´re at. i cbet blank turns against passives, when they checked the flop behind.
when i have aggros behind me, i c/r them instead of leading out unless there´s a good chance the flop might have hit their range.

#20 not good without solid handreading abilities to muck your aces from time to time. i never limp AA, i won´t gain anything from building an image plus i´m paranoid my bullets will get donked down.

Ive limped KK in MP, even open limped it Shocked

My read was BB was a donk and would stack of once he raises PF, and he PFR a hell of a lot. i did get some limpers behind me and a PFR from CO or BTN.

BB called the CO/BTN PFR, i 3 bet, CO/BTN folds,BB donk shoves KTo.

Result

Here is a hand where I made a massive overbet on the river. It looks foolish, but you have to confess I played it like a pro. I thought he had a flush and that he will call my bet. If an ace didn't come, I might have folded to a big river bet but on turn, my read was not so strong yet. I don't do that on a bluff however, because at 25NL this is foolish and it doesn't pay off in the long run to risk more than it is in the pot to win less than it is in the pot.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG ($23.75)
MP ($24.40)
CO ($14.65)
Button ($43.35)
Hero ($23.75)
BB ($11.55)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 3

, A

.
UTG calls $0.25, 1 fold, CO calls $0.25, 1 fold, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($1) 3

, A

, K

(4 players)
Hero bets $0.75, BB calls $0.75, UTG calls $0.75, CO folds.

Turn: ($3.25) 6

(3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG bets $1.25, Hero calls $1.25, BB folds.

River: ($5.75) A

(2 players)
Hero bets $21.5 (All-In), UTG calls $21.50 (All-In).

Final Pot: $48.75

And he had a flush indeed.

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NLHE T&P - Week 12 Discussion p. 252-258

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NLHE T&P - Week 12 Discussion p. 252-258