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Posted: Sat, 30 Dec 2006, 5:31pm Post subject: raising from the blinds with lots of callers?
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3-of-a-Kind

Joined: 29 Jul 2005
Posts: 82 WPP: 531
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I find myself a lot where I have a hand like AJ, KQ, Q10 on the small or big blind and have 4 or 5 limpers in front of me. I know if I raise they are all going to call so I have not been raising with them. Then if I hit the hand I raise and it is sort of disguised. Is this a correct way to play or should I be raising with hands like these knowing that all will call?
Thanks,
Jutah |
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Posted: Sat, 30 Dec 2006, 7:18pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind

Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 3580 WPP: 79
Location: emo-kid
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| against this many players you're not forfeiting a lot of edge by just calling. if you're on a hot run or want to push every small edge you get, you should raise for value. (not QT, that's too loose, AJ and KQ definitely, especially suited). |
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Posted: Sun, 31 Dec 2006, 11:00am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind

Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 2521 WPP: 92
Location: Arlington, VA
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| If you have the best hand, why do you not want your opponents calling? |
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Posted: Sun, 31 Dec 2006, 1:54pm Post subject:
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3-of-a-Kind

Joined: 29 Jul 2005
Posts: 82 WPP: 531
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| Hi dsaxton, what I have found in some of these low limit tables is that since everybody will call one more bet then I am out of position on the flop. If it doesn't hit me then I am forced to check and normally some goof will be with his ace rag or junk bottom pair and then I have to fold. If I have something suited or connected then I don't mind the callers. Also if I just call or check in the bb then when I do hit I am hidden and someone playing K junk hits too he will call me all the way down and I normally get paid off well. |
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Posted: Sun, 31 Dec 2006, 2:21pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind

Joined: 20 Dec 2003
Posts: 1943 WPP: 78
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| dsaxton wrote: | | If you have the best hand, why do you not want your opponents calling? |
Be careful creating huge pots where it becomes proper for your opponents to call with poor draws.
Calling here your oponents get something like 5-6:1 on a flop bet, where if you raise they are getting 10-11:1 making it correct to call. |
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Posted: Sun, 31 Dec 2006, 3:43pm Post subject:
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Straight Flush

Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 4929 WPP: 81
Location: Pwnsylvania
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| FWIW I have never played 6max in the SB and have had 5 limpers in front of me. Either way I think you raise hands that play well in large pots with many opponents. Hands such as QJs play very well in these types of pots. Hands like AJo/AQo go down in value in much larger pots. I would just complete the SB with a lot of offsuited broadways and check in the BB to keep the pot managable. It is tough to protect your hand if the pot gets bloated, especially if the players in late position are passive and will not lead a flop if checked to affording you the possibility of c/r'ing. |
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Posted: Sun, 31 Dec 2006, 5:56pm Post subject:
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Full House

Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 966 WPP: 129
Location: st. paul, MO
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| Just because opponents are making a correct call does not mean you are losing money. If you have a raising hand you should raise. Your opponents are still losing money on that extra bet and you are gaining. It's a correct call for them because they lose more if they fold. Sure, you also create a situation on the flop where the pot is bigger and a lot of weak draws can call one or even 2 bets correctly, but you shouldn't mind this so much because again even though the call is correct for them, you are still the one making money on the bet when you are ahead. Not raising when you should preflop because you know everyone will call is a pretty big error. |
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Posted: Sun, 31 Dec 2006, 7:39pm Post subject:
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Straight Flush

Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 4929 WPP: 81
Location: Pwnsylvania
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| Xanadu wrote: | | Not raising when you should preflop because you know everyone will call is a pretty big error. |
Of course.
However, the concepts of typical shorthanded hold'em do not apply to OP's guidelines. The game he is illustrating is more applicable to a full ring loose table where 5-6 people are seeing a flop. Because of this I would use SSHE criteria in determining a raising hand vs a calling hand.
1. High Card strength
2. Suitedness
3. Connectability
I would certainly want to have my hand meet at least two of these criteria in order to raise here. Big offsuited broadways play very poorly in large pots with many players therefore I would tend to stay away from raising with them. I think you have a lot of control in manipulating the pot from the blinds PF. If you have a hand that plays well in large pots against many opponents why not raise and magnify your edge. If you have a hand which plays well headsup b/c it typically dominates relative hands then why not just complete the SB or check out of the BB. |
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Posted: Sun, 31 Dec 2006, 8:41pm Post subject:
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3-of-a-Kind

Joined: 29 Jul 2005
Posts: 82 WPP: 531
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Thanks for the input guys
Jutah |
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Posted: Mon, 01 Jan 2007, 11:22am Post subject:
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Full House

Joined: 14 Aug 2004
Posts: 1221 WPP: 76
Location: Louisiana
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| dsaxton wrote: | | If you have the best hand, why do you not want your opponents calling? |
Its often correct to pass on a small edge, if by passing it allows us to press a larger edge later in the hand. Pretty much fits in with what Mike said. |
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Posted: Mon, 01 Jan 2007, 5:33pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind

Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 3566 WPP: 98
Location: Your place or my place
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| OMG NOT ONLY A POST BY MIKE, A POST BY GNOMES TOO! |
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Posted: Tue, 02 Jan 2007, 9:46pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind

Joined: 20 Dec 2003
Posts: 1943 WPP: 78
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| ihategnomes wrote: |
Its often correct to pass on a small edge, if by passing it allows us to press a larger edge later in the hand. Pretty much fits in with what Mike said. |
ummm yea, what he said that I said..  |
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