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What makes a good cash game player?

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DubRod
Post Posted: Fri, 01 Sep 2006, 12:39am    Post subject: What makes a good cash game player? Reply with quote
Straight
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Hey.
I was just wondering what makes for a good cash game player at stakes 100NL and up compared to lower limits.
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gabe
Post Posted: Fri, 01 Sep 2006, 9:06am    Post subject: Reply with quote
EAT BUGS
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hand reading ability. it takes hundreds of thousands of hands to be an awesome hand reader though.
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BankItDrew
Post Posted: Fri, 01 Sep 2006, 1:52pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Lots of aces, PP's, and nice flops.
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Renton
Post Posted: Fri, 01 Sep 2006, 2:09pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Consistency. In order to make a lot of money you must play a style that you can consistently repeat. Even the most undesirable of situations must have "standard" solutions. You must be able to tap into your memory bank of "standard" solutions at any time, without really having to think about it.
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Miffed22001
Post Posted: Fri, 01 Sep 2006, 2:15pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Renton wrote:
Consistency. In order to make a lot of money you must play a style that you can consistently repeat. Even the most undesirable of situations must have "standard" solutions. You must be able to tap into your memory bank of "standard" solutions at any time, without really having to think about it.


can this be paraphrased to

flop sets
get paid ?
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dan
Post Posted: Fri, 01 Sep 2006, 2:25pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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hand reading, aggressive play, no respect for dough yo!
good understanding of position, good table selection, able to change gears.
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johnnyBuz
Post Posted: Fri, 01 Sep 2006, 6:34pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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dan wrote:
hand reading, aggressive play, no respect for dough yo!
good understanding of position, good table selection, able to change gears.


table selection is what i need to work on. sometimes i join full tables of half full stacks and half shorties ($10-15 at 25NL) and just tear the table up and double my buyin without even really trying to make money.

then i'll play at a table full of full stacks and have the toughest time just winning a $3 pot. then i'll usually go busto going all in preflop or on the flop and getting bad beat but that's besides the point.

so i think i need to start joining tables with half full stacks and half shorties more consistently, no?
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Rondavu
Post Posted: Fri, 01 Sep 2006, 7:45pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Understanding implied odds completely, seeing a lot of flops cheap, applying pressure constantly, and making big laydowns against reasonable ranges. In a nutshell.

Hand reading ability puts you over the top. Play half a million hands and get back to me.
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DubRod
Post Posted: Fri, 01 Sep 2006, 9:48pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Well I have been really trying to apply myself in reading hands. Started by playing less tables at a time to focus on detail and it is starting to pay off in alot of situations. For one it has made some big laydowns easier and in turn saved me money. It also helped me identify c-bets and pot buying alot.

Table selection is one thing I have to apply myself more.
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apunisher
Post Posted: Sat, 02 Sep 2006, 12:16am    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Miffed22001 wrote:
Renton wrote:
Consistency. In order to make a lot of money you must play a style that you can consistently repeat. Even the most undesirable of situations must have "standard" solutions. You must be able to tap into your memory bank of "standard" solutions at any time, without really having to think about it.


can this be paraphrased to

flop sets
get paid ?


lol
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andy-akb
Post Posted: Sat, 02 Sep 2006, 6:40am    Post subject: Reply with quote
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johnnyBuz wrote:
dan wrote:
hand reading, aggressive play, no respect for dough yo!
good understanding of position, good table selection, able to change gears.


table selection is what i need to work on. sometimes i join full tables of half full stacks and half shorties ($10-15 at 25NL) and just tear the table up and double my buyin without even really trying to make money.

then i'll play at a table full of full stacks and have the toughest time just winning a $3 pot. then i'll usually go busto going all in preflop or on the flop and getting bad beat but that's besides the point.

so i think i need to start joining tables with half full stacks and half shorties more consistently, no?

No. Ideally youd find a table full of full stacks that are all horrible.

Table selection is a huge part of the game that most people simply ignore. Good table selection skills easily can have a hug impact on your winrate and there is no reason you shouldnt practice it. It can make a losing game or breakeven game into a winning one without any change in skill.

I agree with the things people said here, the general ones like consistency and the more specific ones like hand reading. Going even more general I think the key is really dedication, you need to want to improve and actually apply yourself, if you dont you are just going to be treading water.
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DubRod
Post Posted: Sat, 02 Sep 2006, 9:08am    Post subject: Reply with quote
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One generality that has really improved my game is ''Attitude''. I believe having a positive attitude towards your game and reminding yourself of your short and long term goals is a good way to help you prevent going off track. This in turn implies having good discipline on the felt and towards your Bankroll Management.

also: How to pick a good table? Avg. Pot, Avg players on flop, hands per hour?
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benny999
Post Posted: Sat, 02 Sep 2006, 9:27am    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Table selection hits home for me. I have OK ability to fold, read and use position/aggression etc, but sitting at great seats and tables is a big reason I'm a big winner (so far..) in 100nl. But I bet as you get to higher levels where there's more skill and fewer players, the other skills are more important.

DubRod, this is a good thread - http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/forum/poker-36159.htm I'll try writing what I do though...the first thing is look for people on my "buddy list" (on hollywood, I mark them with a green dot and scroll the tables lists). If they're on (preferably fully stacked), I get a seat to their left so I have position. If I can't get in on those tables or they aren't around, then I look at the average pot sizes and players/flop, the more the better...but if one table has high stats except all stacks are small, I go for the tables with big stacks.
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samsonite2100
Post Posted: Sat, 02 Sep 2006, 10:06am    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Quote:
also: How to pick a good table? Avg. Pot, Avg players on flop, hands per hour?


I sort by avg. players on flop and then look for the biggest average pot size in that group. Tables where 60% of the players are seeing flops are generally really easy to beat if you have any fundamental poker skills like raising preflop, etc.
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Renton
Post Posted: Sat, 02 Sep 2006, 10:21am    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Renton's table selection:

Join all of the 2/4 10-max tables on Party Poker.
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izybx
Post Posted: Sat, 02 Sep 2006, 11:29am    Post subject: Reply with quote
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or any other table on party- poker. LOL

What a terrible (great) site!
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dioufy77
Post Posted: Tue, 19 Sep 2006, 7:39am    Post subject: Reply with quote
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i would have thought a very good ability at reading opponents, being unpredicatble and being able to remain calm under pressure. a sufficient bankroll for the stakes aswell will propably help!
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NEVERSCURRED
Post Posted: Mon, 25 Sep 2006, 10:45am    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Alot of what is being said is true, but you have to relate it to the limits that you play at... 2/4 and under, most of the skills that everyone has listed is a bit overrated. We should all be able to beat the lower stakes by playing simple ABC style poker... Why play a high level strategy with players that think on a low level???

Low stakes poker is boring and profitable for that very reason (players that think on a low level.) I would love to make fancy plays at the limits I play, but it's not profitable when your opponents can't read the board...
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hachkc
Post Posted: Mon, 25 Sep 2006, 11:06am    Post subject: Reply with quote
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My thoughts on a good cash player for NL online:

1. Patience especially if you have a lot of tournament experience.

2. PT or PO for tracking and profiling online opponents along with a good hud. It can take awhile to build up a good db but its worth it.

3. Know your pot odds and more importantly implied odds. Implied odds requires some knowledge of your opponents to be successful.

4. Don't just play strong hands that can win but play strong hands that can win a players stack. Obviously any PP is playable to just about any reasonable raise for this reason depending on the stack that backs it up.

5. Money is made in sets (and full houses from improved sets) and str8s. Flushes while strong are harder to get paid off on so implied odds generally are not very high on them like they are with str8s and sets.

6. Big pots need big hands (not my quote). Any pair, TP, TPTK, and any overpair (debatable) are not a big hand so don't get married to them.

7. Bankroll Mgmt - Don't be afraid to lose your stack on hand just make sure when you do, you can reload and keep playing. Playing tight with a short stack isn't a bad way to start.
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KrazyBluffer
Post Posted: Mon, 25 Sep 2006, 12:14pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Good cash game player:

#1) Game selection.
#2) Game selection.
#3) Game selection.
#4) Patience
#5) Discipline
#6) Playing Short Stacked * (works for me)

I'm up almost 6 1/2 FULL Stacks in my last 1000 hands of 25NL playing SHORT stacked !!!
($160)

Plan on trying 50 NL today shortstacked will see how it goes.
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hachkc
Post Posted: Mon, 25 Sep 2006, 12:30pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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KrazyBluffer wrote:
I'm up almost 6 1/2 FULL Stacks in my last 1000 hands of 25NL playing SHORT stacked !!!
($160)

Plan on trying 50 NL today shortstacked will see how it goes.


My typical buyin for a NL table is around 60 big blinds. I've been consistently profitable at NL over the last 31k hands with this approach.

As for 1,000 hands, sounds like a heater and its too small of a sample to mean much.
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KrazyBluffer
Post Posted: Mon, 25 Sep 2006, 2:04pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Quote:
My typical buyin for a NL table is around 60 big blinds. I've been consistently profitable at NL over the last 31k hands with this approach.

As for 1,000 hands, sounds like a heater and its too small of a sample to mean much.


It is a heater!!! I finally got one cuz I'm sick of grinding it out all the time lol
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hachkc
Post Posted: Mon, 25 Sep 2006, 2:25pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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KrazyBluffer wrote:
Quote:
My typical buyin for a NL table is around 60 big blinds. I've been consistently profitable at NL over the last 31k hands with this approach.

As for 1,000 hands, sounds like a heater and its too small of a sample to mean much.


It is a heater!!! I finally got one cuz I'm sick of grinding it out all the time lol


I had one going last night at FTP, bought in for $30 at 2 $50NL tables and in an about 90mins was upto $210 or so between the 2 of them. Too bad I dropped a $60 buyin at a $100NL table during the same but clear $20 at another $100NL table.
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bearcats05
Post Posted: Mon, 25 Sep 2006, 6:50pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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if you would have bought in full you would have won a lot more...

there is no point in buying in for 30 at 50nl. if you cant buy in for 50 go play 25nl
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Chris4tw
Post Posted: Mon, 25 Sep 2006, 9:06pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Game selection isn't very big in my book. I just go to the table with biggest avg. pot with a high percentage of people seeing the flop.

Playing as a short stack I feel is for weak players. It severely limits your type of play and doesn't allow you to win money on your big hands.

I've stacked people with full stacks at 200NL before. If I brought in $120 instead of $200, I just lost $80. Very pointless.

I'm all for patience and discipline, but I would stack off against certain people with TPTK. Some people are big fish, and you must realize that. Don't limit yourself to one strategy. It should change everytime depending on the table.
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bearcats05
Post Posted: Tue, 26 Sep 2006, 3:14pm    Post subject: Reply with quote