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Posted: Fri, 30 Jun 2006, 8:19am Post subject: What to do when a non fish chases a flush
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 3402
WPP: 70
Location: over there
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This guy is 23/11/highly aggro. The main point is he's not your average flush chaser. So should I call here on the river?
***** Hand History for Game 4624264196 *****
$200 NL Texas Hold'em - Friday, June 30, 09:03:44 ET 2006
Table Table 109657 (No DP) (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 5
Seat 2: Halibut555 ( $201.60 )
Seat 3: joooocs ( $440.92 )
Seat 5: Captain54173 ( $291.86 )
Seat 6: Sleepy1980 ( $193 )
Seat 1: lolYouFoldEZ ( $200 )
joooocs posts small blind [$1].
Captain54173 posts big blind [$2].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to lolYouFoldEZ [ Th 8h ]
Sleepy1980 folds.
lolYouFoldEZ raises [$8].
Halibut555 folds.
joooocs calls [$7].
Captain54173 folds.
Pot: $16
** Dealing Flop ** [ 3d, 5s, 8s ]
joooocs checks.
lolYouFoldEZ bets [$15].
easydachs has joined the table.
joooocs calls [$15].
Pot: $36
** Dealing Turn ** [ 2d ]
joooocs checks.
lolYouFoldEZ bets [$30].
joooocs calls [$30].
Pot: $96
** Dealing River ** [ 2s ]
joooocs bets [$35].
lolYouFoldEZ ??? |
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Posted: Fri, 30 Jun 2006, 10:22am Post subject:
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Straight
Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Posts: 241
WPP: 86
Location: West Virginia
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could be a slow played set, or he missed and is trying to buy it with the scare card on the river.
You are putting alot of money in the pot with TPWK.
I probably fold, but I don't play 6 max |
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Posted: Fri, 30 Jun 2006, 11:10am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 2185
WPP: 80
Location: donkaments weeeeeeeeeeee
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67 could play this way, his bet seems a bit low for a bluff though..
He could also have some extra outs with his FD (overcard, pair, gutshot).
I usually check the turn btw, not sure if that's ok or not.. I don't mind a free river card to control the potsize. |
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Posted: Fri, 30 Jun 2006, 12:04pm Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 22 Mar 2005
Posts: 469
WPP: 172
Location: U, S and A!!!
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| johnny_fish wrote: |
I usually check the turn btw, not sure if that's ok or not.. I don't mind a free river card to control the potsize. |
yes in position with your holdings here against a bigger stack, i prob take this line too. i just don't want to play a big pot here w/ 10-8 and no draw to speak of, checking turn helps that. if you had TP and some sort of draw your self then the turn bet is better. |
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Posted: Fri, 30 Jun 2006, 12:41pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 14 Aug 2004
Posts: 1221
WPP: 76
Location: Louisiana
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| Quote: | | checking turn helps that. if you had TP and some sort of draw your self then the turn bet is better. |
Wouldnt it be worse then? If you just have top pair and get raised on the turn you can safely dump. If you had TP+FD and you got re-raised hard you would have just messed up by betting and not checking the turn. |
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Posted: Fri, 30 Jun 2006, 12:48pm Post subject:
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EAT BUGS
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 7810
WPP: 51
Location: trying to live
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| fold, too many mediocre hands do this that you can't beat i think |
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Posted: Fri, 30 Jun 2006, 12:52pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 1524
WPP: 109
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| 67s or the likes makes sense. I think he hit his flush but is scared of a boat so he makes a 1/3 pot bet. He can safely fold if you raise big. He figures two pair may call a small bet. So, it's not a bad bet by him. You could get him to fold if you jack it up but I don't think it's worth it especially with the slightest chance he has a boat. I hate folding here but calling sucks too. Since you beat few hands - fold. |
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Posted: Fri, 30 Jun 2006, 1:02pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 3402
WPP: 70
Location: over there
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| In general though? Say I had JJ in the same position? |
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Posted: Fri, 30 Jun 2006, 1:20pm Post subject:
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EAT BUGS
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 7810
WPP: 51
Location: trying to live
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| i think JJ is the least you can call with. he is definitely raising QQ+ preflop, but not everyone will reraise 99/TT/JJ out of position (although they usually should be). |
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Posted: Fri, 30 Jun 2006, 2:09pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 1524
WPP: 109
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| gabe wrote: | | i think JJ is the least you can call with. he is definitely raising QQ+ preflop, but not everyone will reraise 99/TT/JJ out of position (although they usually should be). |
Gabe - when you reraise 99+ preflop OOP are you cbettting 80%+ of the time regardless? What percent of the pot are you betting? I only see people exclusively reraising AA/KK/QQ/AK and nothing else. |
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Posted: Fri, 30 Jun 2006, 2:29pm Post subject:
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EAT BUGS
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 7810
WPP: 51
Location: trying to live
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i reraise it against people who have a large opening range in late position.
hard to say the % of cbetting after reraising, but probably around 80%
% of pot bet depends on stacks, flop, and other player |
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Posted: Fri, 30 Jun 2006, 3:29pm Post subject:
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Straight Flush
Joined: 21 Jun 2005
Posts: 7706
WPP: 71
Location: Petra Marklund FTW ^^^^
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potted the turn with tpwk, yukky.
| Quote: |
Gabe - when you reraise 99+ preflop OOP are you cbettting 80%+ of the time regardless? What percent of the pot are you betting? I only see people exclusively reraising AA/KK/QQ/AK and nothing else
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One of the most useable lines in small to medium stakes poker, particualrly 6max. |
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Posted: Fri, 30 Jun 2006, 3:33pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 1523
WPP: 113
Location: Downswinging holla!
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| Tough spot, you're getting around 4-1 on a call, but our kicker sucks here. I'd fold though most likely since a lot of hands beat us other than flushes, like small overpairs, straights, 8's with a better kicker, etc. I'd be calling this with 99 or better though. |
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Posted: Fri, 30 Jun 2006, 3:41pm Post subject:
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Straight Flush
Joined: 21 Jun 2005
Posts: 7706
WPP: 71
Location: Petra Marklund FTW ^^^^
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| aislephive wrote: | | Tough spot, you're getting around 4-1 on a call, but our kicker sucks here. I'd fold though most likely since a lot of hands beat us other than flushes, like small overpairs, straights, 8's with a better kicker, etc. I'd be calling this with 99 or better though. | i agree with this, i just cant get over potting the turn with tpwk on a drawing board. No neeeed imo. |
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Posted: Fri, 30 Jun 2006, 3:46pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 1523
WPP: 113
Location: Downswinging holla!
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| Miffed22001 wrote: | | aislephive wrote: | | Tough spot, you're getting around 4-1 on a call, but our kicker sucks here. I'd fold though most likely since a lot of hands beat us other than flushes, like small overpairs, straights, 8's with a better kicker, etc. I'd be calling this with 99 or better though. | i agree with this, i just cant get over potting the turn with tpwk on a drawing board. No neeeed imo. |
His math was off, the pot was $46 or so on the turn. He only bet about 2/3 the pot. I agree about not potting it, but there's nothing wrong with betting the turn here at all with how drawy it is. It's a standard bet/fold to a raise spot. And if he calls and leads the river it is rarely a bluff so we can safely fold (depending on bet-size and the river card of course). Usually the turn bet gets us a free showdown while having charged the million draws. |
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Posted: Fri, 30 Jun 2006, 5:33pm Post subject:
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EAT BUGS
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 7810
WPP: 51
Location: trying to live
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| Miffed22001 wrote: | potted the turn with tpwk, yukky.
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not really...... betting turn here is fine |
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Posted: Fri, 30 Jun 2006, 5:39pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 2521
WPP: 92
Location: Arlington, VA
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| Looks like a super easy fold. |
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Posted: Fri, 30 Jun 2006, 7:00pm Post subject:
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Straight Flush
Joined: 21 Jun 2005
Posts: 7706
WPP: 71
Location: Petra Marklund FTW ^^^^
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| Quote: |
Miffed22001 wrote:
potted the turn with tpwk, yukky.
not really...... betting turn here is fine
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It was actually betting but the amount considering what may be calling us down here and the fact you get to see a fair number of c/r's here from aggro/semi-good opps.
I agree with betting, just 2/3rds is a lot with tp/wk when you assume opp is chasing. |
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Posted: Fri, 30 Jun 2006, 7:08pm Post subject:
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EAT BUGS
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 7810
WPP: 51
Location: trying to live
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people never c/r a pot sized bet with a hand that doesn't beat us.
good players would hardly ever c/r any good sized bet on the turn given the board texture |
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Posted: Fri, 30 Jun 2006, 8:30pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 3402
WPP: 70
Location: over there
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What if I told you I was raising the shit out of the blinds every orbit?
I when I bet the turn I was assuming about 30%ish that the opp was pissed with my raising. I think. |
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