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Posted: Fri, 09 Jun 2006, 7:42pm Post subject: Purposefully passive .. but too much? |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 3559
WPP: 97
Location: Your place or my place
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Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Preflop: Hero is MP with Q , A .
UTG calls, Hero raises, 3 folds, BB calls, UTG calls.
Flop: (6.40 SB) T , T , Q (3 players)
BB bets, UTG folds, Hero calls.
Turn: (4.20 BB) 7 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.
River: (4.20 BB) A (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.
Final Pot: 6.20 BB |
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Posted: Fri, 09 Jun 2006, 8:04pm Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 3559
WPP: 97
Location: Your place or my place
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| I was thinking of raising and folding to a threebet... but then I figured, if I'm going to fold to a threebet, why raise? |
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Posted: Fri, 09 Jun 2006, 8:29pm Post subject: |
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Straight
Joined: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 136
WPP: 48
Location: NZ
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| I don't think he's ever screwplaying this turn. I bet. |
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Posted: Fri, 09 Jun 2006, 9:15pm Post subject: |
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Full House
Joined: 15 Oct 2004
Posts: 666
WPP: 95
Location: Decatur, IL
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| I don't understand the turn check...For most opponents, the flop donk bet is basically telling you he doesn't have a T and the board has a lot of draws on it, so I say just bet. |
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Posted: Sat, 10 Jun 2006, 12:18am Post subject: Re: Purposefully passive .. but too much? |
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Full House
Joined: 28 Nov 2004
Posts: 633
WPP: 174
Location: Location: Location
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| I bet the turn. If he has a ten and bet the flop and got no raisers, it's really unlikely he's going to try to checkraise the turn. And if he has a Q or a draw he's calling, so there is value in betting. |
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Posted: Sat, 10 Jun 2006, 2:52am Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 3559
WPP: 97
Location: Your place or my place
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Well, in a case of earth shattering logic, I figured villain either had the T or he did not.
If he had the T, I was saving money by checking through the turn.
If he had a Q, I was losing money by not getting value for it
If he had nothing, I was going to let him attempt to draw thin (I'm only really scared of a K on the river... but it wouldn't change much.) or let him stab at a river which he has no chance of picking up, either way hoping to get an extra bet when ahead and lose the last when behind.
I think I like my check through on the turn. I think I should have popped a river and folded to a threebet. But you guys seem to hate that line. |
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Posted: Wed, 28 Jun 2006, 3:37pm Post subject: |
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Two Pair
Joined: 30 Dec 2005
Posts: 33
WPP: 60
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what about KJ K9 J8 Qx KQ AJ ?
turn check is horrible |
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Posted: Wed, 28 Jun 2006, 5:27pm Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 2195
WPP: 52
Location: NZ
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Posted: Wed, 28 Jun 2006, 10:30pm Post subject: |
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High Card
Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Posts: 8
WPP: 73
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| I also, would raise the flop and see what line my opponent takes. if he calls, im putting him on either a bluff attempt on the flop or maybe hes got a Q also. But the way opponent played the hand...i wouldnt be surprised if he actually did have a 10. i've seen a lot of players bet out their trips and then if they get one caller, try to induce a caller to bet and then check-raise him...but this is at $1/$2...not sure how it is at $5/$10 |
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Posted: Thu, 29 Jun 2006, 5:25am Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 3559
WPP: 97
Location: Your place or my place
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I disagree. Raising the flop is dumb. We'll only fold a worse hand, and we'll get punished when he has a better hand. Raising the flop does us precious little good.
If he's willing to fire bets into a pot when he is way the hell behind, why would you want to raise and discourage that? |
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Posted: Thu, 29 Jun 2006, 5:42am Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 2195
WPP: 52
Location: NZ
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| Over half of the donk bets I encounter are draws. |
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Posted: Thu, 29 Jun 2006, 12:40pm Post subject: |
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Straight
Joined: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 136
WPP: 48
Location: NZ
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| midas06 wrote: | | Over half of the donk bets I encounter are draws. |
So why discourage them from betting? |
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Posted: Thu, 29 Jun 2006, 4:49pm Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 2195
WPP: 52
Location: NZ
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| Because I want to get to showdown. If I raise the flop and bet the turn, I can choose to check behind on the river. It also makes for an easier laydown if I get 3 bet on the flop |
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Posted: Thu, 29 Jun 2006, 8:29pm Post subject: |
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Straight
Joined: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 136
WPP: 48
Location: NZ
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| midas06 wrote: | | Because I want to get to showdown. If I raise the flop and bet the turn, I can choose to check behind on the river. |
If the action goes, villian bets, you raise, he calls. you bet, he calls. You should always be betting the river.
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It also makes for an easier laydown if I get 3 bet on the flop |
You'll have the best hand a decent% even when the flop gets 3bet. |
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Posted: Fri, 30 Jun 2006, 12:13am Post subject: |
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High Card
Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Posts: 8
WPP: 73
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| euphoricism wrote: | I disagree. Raising the flop is dumb. We'll only fold a worse hand, and we'll get punished when he has a better hand. Raising the flop does us precious little good.
If he's willing to fire bets into a pot when he is way the hell behind, why would you want to raise and discourage that? |
i find that in the low limits that I play at ($1/$2)...this raise is effective for me because its not really "discouraging" my opponents when they're behind. Its just capitalizing on their retardedness for calling my raises when they're behind. Very often they will go to river and showdown with a crap hand all the while calling my raises and bets when i think my hand is good. I see players with low pocket pair firing a bet on flop when the board is paired or even high card draws. |
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Posted: Fri, 30 Jun 2006, 4:40am Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 3559
WPP: 97
Location: Your place or my place
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Posted: Fri, 30 Jun 2006, 4:41am Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 2195
WPP: 52
Location: NZ
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| 6high wrote: | | midas06 wrote: | | Because I want to get to showdown. If I raise the flop and bet the turn, I can choose to check behind on the river. |
If the action goes, villian bets, you raise, he calls. you bet, he calls. You should always be betting the river.
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Why? It's the same concept as raising for a free showdown just on the flop. Would you bet the river against a passive player if 5th st completed every draw out there? |
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Posted: Fri, 30 Jun 2006, 12:06pm Post subject: |
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Straight
Joined: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 136
WPP: 48
Location: NZ
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| midas06 wrote: | | 6high wrote: | | midas06 wrote: | | Because I want to get to showdown. If I raise the flop and bet the turn, I can choose to check behind on the river. |
If the action goes, villian bets, you raise, he calls. you bet, he calls. You should always be betting the river.
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Why? It's the same concept as raising for a free showdown just on the flop. |
It may cost the same but it is not the same concept as a free showdown raise.
| Quote: | | Would you bet the river against a passive player if 5th st completed every draw out there? |
Most definitely yes. |
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Posted: Fri, 30 Jun 2006, 4:07pm Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 2195
WPP: 52
Location: NZ
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Posted: Fri, 30 Jun 2006, 4:50pm Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 1968
WPP: 96
Location: 6max limit tables
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i fire the turn, i don't see many people donk then c/r the turn over at party...
seen it a lot actully at Crypto... |
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Posted: Fri, 30 Jun 2006, 6:18pm Post subject: |
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Straight
Joined: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 136
WPP: 48
Location: NZ
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| midas06 wrote: | | It costs less |
If you have the best hand, it costs villian less. |
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