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Open limping

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Do you ever open limp?
Yes
56%
 56%  [ 41 ]
Yes, but only in EP
26%
 26%  [ 19 ]
No
17%
 17%  [ 13 ]
Total Votes : 73

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zook
Post Posted: Tue, 16 May 2006, 11:22am    Post subject: Open limping Reply with quote
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If the answer is yes, please discuss hand ranges.
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dzeanah
Post Posted: Tue, 16 May 2006, 11:26am    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Total noob, but I'll try to get as cheap a flop as possible with PPs below JJ. Have lately been following AOKrongly's 19 hands strategy and have also been limping with easily dominated stuff like KJ.
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Myke
Post Posted: Tue, 16 May 2006, 11:29am    Post subject: Reply with quote
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I will open limp from EP with 22-99(100%) and A2s-A9s (50%).

I think limping with the A/rag may be a leak.
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zook
Post Posted: Tue, 16 May 2006, 11:31am    Post subject: Reply with quote
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I posted this because lambchop wrong in a Beginner's Circle thread yesterday that you should NEVER open limp. (And he said never.)

I open limp from EP with 22-77, KQs and QJs. I think the last two may be leaks, but I try to play them for straight/flush potential and often fold them to LP raises, depending on reads.
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Renton
Post Posted: Tue, 16 May 2006, 12:01pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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At microstakes openlimping small pairs is good.

Other than that openlimping sucks IMO.
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johnnyBuz
Post Posted: Tue, 16 May 2006, 1:16pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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small pocket pairs, suited connectors, suited gappers.
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pgil
Post Posted: Tue, 16 May 2006, 1:54pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Renton wrote:
openlimping sucks IMO.


FYP
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yorib
Post Posted: Tue, 16 May 2006, 2:28pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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This really should be in the "beginners section" as I'm sure open limping at stakes higher than $25NL is a recipe for dissaster.

At a loose table I will open limp anything that I would normally play except 99/TT+ (AK/AQ/88/99 are about 50/50 between raising and limping). That means suited connectors, low pp, any two cards J or higher (QJ+). I'll do this in early position and sometimes to mid-position.
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zook
Post Posted: Tue, 16 May 2006, 2:35pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Renton wrote:
At microstakes openlimping small pairs is good.

Other than that openlimping sucks IMO.

Renton, do you consider 50NL microstakes? What's your general postflop strategy when you miss your set with low PP in EP against one caller? I know it's extremely read/board-dependent I'm just wondering how you avoid losing a lot of money c-betting these. It's probably too read-dependent to discuss generally, so if you have any relavant HH's that would be awesome. Out of curiosity, what are your stats with 22-77?
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zook
Post Posted: Tue, 16 May 2006, 2:38pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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yorib wrote:
This really should be in the "beginners section" as I'm sure open limping at stakes higher than $25NL is a recipe for dissaster.

I play 50NL profitably so far (with a miniscule sample size of 5000 hands) open limping a small range of hands from EP. So while it may be a leak, I don't think it's a "recipe for disaster".

yorib wrote:
At a loose table I will open limp anything that I would normally play except 99/TT+ (AK/AQ/88/99 are about 50/50 between raising and limping). That means suited connectors, low pp, any two cards J or higher (QJ+). I'll do this in early position and sometimes to mid-position.

This, on the other hand, does sound like one.
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Renton
Post Posted: Tue, 16 May 2006, 2:39pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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I think openlimping small pairs in EP is acceptable at 50nl and below, and maybe even at 100nl.

At the stakes I play (100nl/200nl/400nl) I raise all pairs and cbet all heads up flops and it works for me.

If you open limp and miss your set with 22-66 your best be is to check/fold. You didn't raise PF so you don't have much postflop credibility. Remember you aren't betting the flop because you have a pair, you are betting it to represent top pair or overpair. Your pair is just backup in case he calls with a draw.
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BankItDrew
Post Posted: Tue, 16 May 2006, 2:43pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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I like open limping AA from EP because it can be played like a set against a raiser.
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Renton
Post Posted: Tue, 16 May 2006, 2:52pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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I once tried mixing in 20% limps with AA in EP.

Literally every time I did it it limped all the way around.

Never again will I try that.
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yorib
Post Posted: Tue, 16 May 2006, 3:05pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Zook: Why does it look like a leak? I figure since I do it for such a broad range of hands it would be impossible to put me on anything. Also, it keeps me from feeling obligated to c-bet or stay invovled with hands when I've missed the flop. I've actually had very good success trying this out over the last 2-3K hands. (Not that that's worth anything).
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zook
Post Posted: Tue, 16 May 2006, 3:20pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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yorib wrote:
Zook: Why does it look like a leak? I figure since I do it for such a broad range of hands it would be impossible to put me on anything. Also, it keeps me from feeling obligated to c-bet or stay invovled with hands when I've missed the flop. I've actually had very good success trying this out over the last 2-3K hands. (Not that that's worth anything).

I'm probably not the best person to comment on this, but here goes... more experienced players feel free to critique the critique.
yorib wrote:
At a loose table I will open limp anything that I would normally play except 99/TT+ (AK/AQ/88/99 are about 50/50 between raising and limping). That means suited connectors, low pp, any two cards J or higher (QJ+). I'll do this in early position and sometimes to mid-position.

I see a couple of problems. One is limping AK/AQ/88/99 50% of the time. I think the value you might gain from disguising these hands is more than lost by the hands that beat you because you let them see the flop. I think you should open raise these hands from any position, and raise behind with AK and occasionally AQ. The second is limping suited connectors and unsuited broadways. SCs hit very infrequently and when they do you usually have a draw, which sucks to play OOP. When QJ or KQ hits top pair, you're still vulnerable to a better kicker.

It just seems like by limping such a wide range of hands in EP you leave yourself with a lot of difficult post-flop decisions, compounded by the fact that you've let other players see the flop cheaply.
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yorib
Post Posted: Tue, 16 May 2006, 4:20pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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I'll agree with everything you've said and caveat my prior claims with the following:
SCs I play very infrequently in any position, but if I play them EP I'll limp. (I'm beginning to sour on SC in general, but that's a different post.)

I figure that if I have TPTK+ I'm good for about 2/3+ pot bet, plus there are still usually 1-2 people acting after the flop before me. So I won't fire away without something solid. The post flop decisions are usually easy, if I'm on a draw to the nuts I'll take a card if it's priced right (or I'll try and price it myself, if possible). If I have TPTK/2 pair I'll bet as if I'm front until someone tells me otherwise. I'll check/fold under all other conditions.
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Muxy
Post Posted: Tue, 16 May 2006, 8:41pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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I will limp 22-99 from EP up to MP2 then i will open for a raise with any hand i wan't to play from MP2 and beyond.
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vaks
Post Posted: Tue, 27 Feb 2007, 5:38pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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I open push all hands
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Miffed22001
Post Posted: Tue, 27 Feb 2007, 6:06pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Renton wrote:
At microstakes openlimping small pairs is good.

Other than that openlimping sucks IMO.



hmmm
I agree in 200nl+ (maybe 100nl+ games) that this is true in fr.

I also agree a tagg limping in 6max is bad, im still not sure about a slaggy player though considering the bluff limp/reraise and real limp/reraise.
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swiggidy
Post Posted: Tue, 27 Feb 2007, 8:09pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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vaks wrote:
I open push all hands
wtf?
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flyingPenguin
Post Posted: Tue, 27 Feb 2007, 10:38pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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I would normally never open limp. However I played on Party a bit recently and often the PFR of tables was so low that I could be fairly confident of not getting raised. I would sometimes open limp drawing hands like SCs and gappers. I did it very rarely.

The plan for profit was to only play for 2 pair or higher, or to bet out my opponents if there were only a couple of really weak players in the hand.

I'd never seen tables that passive before, so I doubt I'll be trying it again.
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benny999
Post Posted: Tue, 27 Feb 2007, 10:42pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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nice 1 year bump.

my basic strategy - if I don't think raising would be +ev I'd rather just fold it. it's good having more ways to win than just making a hand, and like was said, I don't want to have to balance by limping AA pre flop and whatnot.

but I have exceptions for longshot hands like a SC or low PP, such as:
too many ppl are post flop call stations
most are short stacks that suck post flop, who might overreact to a raise pre flop
my image sucks too much to raise pre flop, but I'll get action if I hit post flop
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zook
Post Posted: Wed, 28 Feb 2007, 12:06am    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Funny bump. 9 months later and 2 levels higher, I never open limp. Just shows to go ya.
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IowaSkinsFan
Post Posted: Wed, 28 Feb 2007, 9:08am    Post subject: Reply with quote
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NEVER OPEN LIMP (Unless you play 50NL or below in which case you should open limp 88-22).
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Anosmic
Post Posted: Wed, 28 Feb 2007, 11:16am    Post subject: Reply with quote
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LOL @ never open-limping.

Limp when the situation warrants. Limp when it will get you what you want. .

Put it this way. It's folded to you on the button. You have rockets.
You know the BB always pushes when someone tries to limp to his BB.
Are you telling me it's wrong to open-limp here?

Right, so there's one situation when you would. Go forth and find more.
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