lagg or tagg? Whats better?

'A loose aggressive type player will always be able to extract a higher bb/100 rate than a tight aggressive type player'

Discuss Smile

My personal thoughts.
1. Number of tables
2. Table image
3. Preflop action
4. Bluffability
5. Steals
etc

What are others thoughts on what should, theoretically be the better style?

I can't effectively play more than 3-4 tables.
That being said, I have a higher sustained BB/100 than any "TAgg" player I know of.

However, I have proven to myself that effective tight play decreases my BB/100 only slightly, and would allow me to play up to 8 tables effectively.

Therefore, I believe TAgg play is more profitable in the sense that you can play more hands on more tables in the same amount of time.

It totally depends on the table situation. Against totally unaware players ABC TAG will keep the highest BB/100.

How much you have to deviate from that, and in what way would totally depend on what games you played in.

e.g. in really loose passive games where counterplay rules, LAG would be horrible.

nice start demi
I agree a taggy type player can play more tables.
reasons would generally be less hands, less reads needed to effectivly play in tagg mode.
The opposite would be true for a good lagg. Fewer tables because reads are more dependant, more concentration on tables because larger VP$IP or need to bet.
Saying that then, is tagg better?
My bb/100 is better in a laggy mode than tagg mode yet i cant play as many tables too. So does that make tight right?

I dont think there is a better or worse, it completely depends on the situation. If you can only play a few tables then lagg will be more profitable, it you want to massively multitable, tag is better for that. The higher in stakes you go the more lags you see, and these arent just the lags that like to bet, they are the lags that know what they are doing. So again, to find out which is the most profitable it all depends what and where you play, and more importantly, you yourself. In the end though there is not 'best", there is only what works for you.

The way I understand it, the TAG style is the ABC "optimum" way of playing according to sklansky's fundamental theorum. Of course you adjust your ranges so that, if someone is playing any A for top pair then you play A9 for top pair, whereas if he is only playing AJ+ for top pair you will need to play tighter, however the basic game plan is the same. Get money in when you are ahead. Call to draw when you are behind but have odds. Fold otherwise.

On the other hand the LAG style is basically designed to throw other people of their game, and force them to play out of their comfort zone. You allow yourself to make some small "mistakes" to try and force your opponent into making much larger mistakes.

If you agree on those definitions then it should be pretty obvious that TAG is supirior to LAG against opponents who will only consider their cards when making a decision, and will not be aware of your actions at all.

So what style is "better" depends entirely on the situation.

The question is similar to asking "which hand is better, AJo or 56s?" A whole lot of other things need to be considered before you can start to answer the question.

What is Counterplay?

If I play lagg or tagg, it depends on the players at the table. I guess you might call it counter play.

Alsow, what you see as lagg play? and are we talking full ring or 6 max?

Axx flop after a preflop raise HU lagg vs tagg.
If lagg raised and tagg decides to move all in what do we put him on? - Reads*100.. what is his range to push with?
If on the other hand tagg raised preflop and lagg moves all in what do we put him on? - Why is a tagg pushing vs a lagg?
If both do this on any Axx flop who calls and loses more often? - Realy dont see the point of this question.
Does anybodys calling range increase because of table image. - Depends on the player.

Generaly, a good lagg will have higher bb/100 but alsow higher variance, but it all depends.

Why are you guys so binary about this?

Play pretty tight, then start picking spots. As you get better and pay more attention, you find more spots.

Fnord OTM. Miffed, it kind of sounds like you've decided LAgg is The Way and you want your view vindicated. But how anyone can say poker is definitely ANYTHING is beyond me.

(one thing I do know is that when I play LAgg, I lose ALL my money ALL the time. So maybe I'm just as biased Smile

)

an afterthought - can someone describe to me what happens at a table that's filled with LAggs? Does it result in annihilation?

while it depends on the player and skill to determine which style yields more winnings, here's my 2 cents:

tags don't play as many hands so when they raise their raises get more respect (obviously). This leads to the next point. When a tag's raise is reraised by an aware player, you can almost bet the aware player has a real hand. This makes it easier for the aware tag to muck his hand, knowing that his aware opponent has raised him, even though his opponent knows that he is a tag and does not fool around. Therefore the tag can read the opponent's hand more easily than a lag. Lag requires more skill to use. What this also means is that the tag will experiance less swings from being bluffed out or making a bad call because he will be able to put his opponent on a hand more easily than the lag.

The lag will experiance more swings because most lags have a target on their forehead when they are at a table. People will try to bluff then out. People will be more inclined to play random hands against them. People will try to break them. Lags will get much more action when they have a hand. However, this also requires lags to be much more skillful than tags. In fact, most lags don't win as much as tags because of the major swings involved. However, to master the lag style of play will of course yield much higher BB/100.

There is a lag player at Bodog named squatchomo who wins thousands on a good day playing 200 nl. He gets the most action when he has a hand and has a true sense for when he is beat. If you can reach this point, lag is the way to go. But playing lag is like playing with fire.

BTW, when fnord says that you should pick your spots, he is just saying to play tag but bluff every so often. That is simply a thinking tag player. To truely play lag invloves much more than bluffing. True lag play is about table image, getting the most action when one has a hand, on top of bluffing and playing more hands. It is not only about bluffing when you "pick your spot". Fnord says don't be so binary about this but he is wrong. True lag play is all about being binary. To be SO loose that the other players at the table become loose as well to try to break the lag. To utilize his table image to get more action. "Picking your spots" is just being a GOOD tag player, not being lag Fnord.

*Last edited by Rondavu on Fri, 31 Mar 2006, 3:14pm; edited 2 times in total*

oh and sorry about the double post guys. haha uh oh what man? read my long post because a lot of valuable info is in that post. tell me what you think.

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lagg or tagg? Whats better?