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Posted: Sat, 25 Mar 2006, 3:49pm Post subject: Party 400NL: Play this flop for me please.
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Flush
Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 435
WPP: 111
Location: Norway
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Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 handed) FTR Hand History Converter
BB ($815.80)
UTG ($515.50)
MP ($404)
CO ($547.78)
Button ($0)
Hero ($660.83)
Preflop: Hero is SB with 9 , 9 . Hero posts a blind of $2.
1 fold, MP calls $4, CO raises to $20, Hero (poster) calls $18, 2 folds.
Flop: ($48) 7 , 7 , 5 (3 players)
What do I do on this flop? I have no reads on the other player. |
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Posted: Sat, 25 Mar 2006, 3:58pm Post subject:
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OLD MAN RIVER
Joined: 14 Sep 2005
Posts: 3561
WPP: 76
Location: Canuckistan
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| These stakes are out of my league, but leading out makes sense to me...$30-ish? |
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Posted: Sat, 25 Mar 2006, 4:25pm Post subject:
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HABITUAL LINE-STEPPER
Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 5251
WPP: 73
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
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I'm with Warpe on the out of my league stuff so take this fwiw.
I think chances are overwhelmingly in your favor that you are ahead. However, betting out here would only get a call from something that beats you, or they think your bluffing, or occasionaly a spade draw.
I would continue to let villain take the lead in the hand. If he's aggressive at all, he will be c-bet with any two here, and then you've got him. I would either checkraise this flop or occasionally check/call, and then bet out the turn. |
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Posted: Sat, 25 Mar 2006, 4:49pm Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 435
WPP: 111
Location: Norway
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Option 1:
Leading out $30-ish. Problem is that a lot of players raise on this type of flop with any two here, I don't know how aggressive this guy is though.
Option 2:
Check-raise, how much? Problem is if he bets out big here like $40, then I need to checkraise to at least $100, and it gets quite expensive if I'm behind. And he can easily call in position with a hand I beat and see what I do on turn. I see several call in this spot with AK. And what do I do on a blank turn? A turn with an overcard?
Any other options? |
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Posted: Sat, 25 Mar 2006, 4:56pm Post subject:
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OLD MAN RIVER
Joined: 14 Sep 2005
Posts: 3561
WPP: 76
Location: Canuckistan
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I think leading out is the cheaper solution to finding out where you stand. If he's raising AK/AQ pre-flop and he's missed, he's going to be reluctant to call/raise. If he's raising an overpair, he's coming over the top.
Lots of discussion about this situation in this thread:
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/forum/poker-30974.htm |
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Posted: Sat, 25 Mar 2006, 5:29pm Post subject:
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EAT BUGS
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 7812
WPP: 51
Location: trying to live
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| check/call is definitely an option and the one i usually take. |
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Posted: Sat, 25 Mar 2006, 7:23pm Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 435
WPP: 111
Location: Norway
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It's the one I usually take as well, in this hand:
Iwind checks.
CO bets $48.
But, this is really expensive, and knowing nothing of his betting patterns I decided to fold here. Else I often check/call flop, and either bet out turn or check-raise turn if his bet looks weak. |
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Posted: Sat, 25 Mar 2006, 7:55pm Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 22 Mar 2005
Posts: 469
WPP: 172
Location: U, S and A!!!
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i like to get an extra bet out of an aggro w/ the check/call line.
for TAGS, you should lead out and if they play back, they have something they like.
for passives, you have to bet on the flop and then see if any overcards come that you think might have hit them given the range you're putting them on with their call. |
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Posted: Sat, 25 Mar 2006, 8:30pm Post subject:
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EAT BUGS
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 7812
WPP: 51
Location: trying to live
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| alias2211 wrote: | | for TAGS, you should lead out and if they play back, they have something they like. |
i dont think this is true. for instance, if i was villiand and i had AK and hero lead into me, i raise almost always |
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Posted: Sat, 25 Mar 2006, 9:00pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 05 Jan 2005
Posts: 1713
WPP: 151
Location: Kansas
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| gabe wrote: | | alias2211 wrote: | | for TAGS, you should lead out and if they play back, they have something they like. |
i dont think this is true. for instance, if i was villiand and i had AK and hero lead into me, i raise almost always |
Yup. When somebody leads into me like that it usually says to me, "I have a good hand, is yours better than mine?" I hammer it back at them and say, "umm yes you are dead," and they fold. |
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Posted: Sat, 25 Mar 2006, 9:36pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 2526
WPP: 92
Location: Arlington, VA
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Posted: Sat, 25 Mar 2006, 9:40pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 1602
WPP: 105
Location: Party 6 max
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You cannot lead. It is considered weak too often.
Strange thought from the LAgg guy. but I really like your check fold.
You can not effectively control the size of the pot out of position. You have no information of the strength of your opponents hand. IF you have the best hand, you will win a small pot. If you have the worst hand you will lose a large one. Even of you have the best hand now your opponent has outs to beat you. If you have the worst hand you are drawing incredibly slim.
Other options are to chack call the flop and lead or check raise the turn, or fold to another large bet.
Either way, your goal is to play a small pot with your 99.
Standard play in limit is to check call, check call, lead. |
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Posted: Sun, 26 Mar 2006, 4:47am Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 435
WPP: 111
Location: Norway
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| Especially leading on a paired board, it's so easy for him to raise. What I was thinking was that I don't want to play a big pot with 99 out of position on this flop, and when he makes this pot-sized bet, a big pot is what we have if I call. Good to hear some people thinking my fold wasn't too weak here. |
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Posted: Sun, 26 Mar 2006, 4:34pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 1523
WPP: 113
Location: Downswinging holla!
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| I really think you should lead out here, not for some pathetic half-pot sized bet, but a pot-sized bet. You will get raised occasionally and you will usually have to fold, but it depends on how aggressive this guy is. They don't always raise when you lead out, and if you find that they're doing it a lot then start leading out with sets and things like that. A check-raise is pretty expensive, but I do think you have the best hand here so I would never check-fold this flop. Check-calling is okay, but it sucks when they hit one of their overcards. Just my two cents. |
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Posted: Sun, 26 Mar 2006, 5:53pm Post subject:
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midstakes donk
Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Posts: 2485
WPP: 45
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
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do not lead out in this hand if your opponent doesnt suck
A minraise followed by a 3/5 pot bet on nonspade turn will take this pot down against all but fish
If youre playing your cards rather than your opponent however, which is incorrect in this spot, the fold is fine |
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Posted: Mon, 27 Mar 2006, 6:11am Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 435
WPP: 111
Location: Norway
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Well, a minraise tells me nothing about the other guy`s hand, he might call that in position with several different hands. Overpair will call this, flush draws will for sure given these odds, he might even call with just overcards. Not a big chance he will put me on a 7 if he is a thinking player, I certainly wouldnt and not that many players would call this raise from the blinds with a hand containing a 7 apart from 77, and there is also 55 for the FH. And flopping a FH here most players would either bet out or slowplay by calling, then check-minraise looks weak to me. This sets me up to loose a huge pot if I am behind here, and doesnt give me any info on where I am. A ten to ace on the turn is also a scare-card, just like a spade would be, if he has a spade draw it will contain two overs for sure.
I still think call, see what he does on turn and then check-raise on a blank turn is the better option if I am going further with this hand. |
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Posted: Mon, 27 Mar 2006, 9:57am Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 22 Mar 2005
Posts: 469
WPP: 172
Location: U, S and A!!!
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| Demiparadigm wrote: |
Standard play in limit is to check call, check call, lead. |
Yeah, I've been thinking about this one a lot in the last couple of days. And the asswhupping I took for my comments. Thank you sirs, may I have another. I think what I was getting at was more about the different ways one COULD try to play then hand given what they know about their opponent. But my comments didn't really reflect that, so thanks for the help in direction.
I agree that the default line should be something close to the above from Demi, when you don't know your opponent. You don't want to play a huge pot here, and it doesn't get any smaller when you lead OOP on the flop. I applied this concept several times yesterday and happily came away with a few smaller pots, and got off a little easier on some pots that the villian did actually have a better hand (like when he has 1010 over your 99). |
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Posted: Mon, 27 Mar 2006, 11:39pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 951
WPP: 66
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| AK bets and raises here everytime. check/call or check/raise, depending on vpip |
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Posted: Tue, 28 Mar 2006, 1:20am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 1602
WPP: 105
Location: Party 6 max
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| bair wrote: | | AK bets and raises here everytime. check/call or check/raise, depending on vpip |
So does TT-AA. Just because you can think of a hand that you beat, does not mean the best play is to go to showdown. |
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