What did you have to learn?

*Last edited by Les_Worm on Wed, 29 Sep 2004, 10:27pm; edited 1 time in total*

What are the biggest things you had to learn before you became a winning player (or to get you on track to becoming a winning player.)?

For me, these 5 were huge.

1. The odds of making a flush aren't good enough to play any cards that are suited.

2. Sometimes you have to lay down a monster because sometimes you are beat.

3. Don't play games that you bankroll can't support.

4. Its not my job to be the 'hero' and call everyone bluff.

5. PATIENTS! How could I forget that? I had to learn to wait for good cards and pick my spots.

I've had alot more success after learning these things.

Top pair's are a dime a dozen.

It's easy to pay someone else off with medium, unsuited cards.

When someone goes AI or bets BIG into you, they are probably NOT bluffing, you better like your hand if you want to call.

Don't bluff too much. Internet players are capable of making the most ridiculous calls i.e. bottom pair w/ a big kicker.

Keep a sharp eye out for players who overplay TPTK and even two pair because a set can make help you take their whole stack.

1. The rules of hold'em
2. Pot odds pre and postflop
3. Reading betting patterns (online) and tells (live)

You don't need to wear sunglasses playing online.

Don't play poker when you're drunk.

Don't play high stakes poker while studying.

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there's nothing like going bust to teach a player what not to do next time...

knowing when beaten

There are lots of things, but I think the single biggest thing in poker (live or B&M) helped my earn rate was learning when to check behind on the river.

Online, it was learning how to read betting patterns rather than relying on physical tells. It's easy to me now at the lowest limits, but still a challenge at 5/10 or higher.

(1) You only make money from other peoples mistakes.
- Find tables with fish
- If opps are same level as you, chances are you will lose money
(2) Track record is the only indicator of successful strategy
(3) Consistency and patience!
(4) Be calm and rational when playing
(5) I have lost the most money playing loose/aggressive
(6) Dont learn strategy by watching WPT or WSOP. (They dont show you all the hands, just the exciting ones)
(7) Read some books
(8) Intimately know your leaks
(9) Intimately know what opp weaknesses make you the most profit
(10) Read some books
(11) It has to be enjoyable!
(12) There is no such thing as bad luck just bad play
(13) Dont play when sleepy or mad
(14) Find high-reward / low-risk tables
(15) If your not calm, stop playing! I have a hard time doing this especially after a bad beat
(16) Dont count the win unless the pot is on your side of the table.
- I have had soo many semi-nut flops/turns only to be steamed by (bad) beats on the river
(17) Dont be drawing dead!
(18) Dont play above your bankroll or comfortability range.
- When you lose money they become extra stressful and put you in a not clam mood.
(19) Dont mix strategies (e.g. Limit vs NL, SnG vs Ring vs MTT, 7-card vs holdem)
- This is a tuff one since what works in one might make it harder to know why you losing money in another. You might find yourself losing at both games (e.g. Ring vs SnG)
(20) Poker Tracker is good!
(21) Learn pot odds and outs

*Last edited by jmrogers7 on Thu, 30 Sep 2004, 11:17am; edited 1 time in total*

I would agree with just about everyone's thoughts here as most of them are common sense for the most part.

For myself personally, I would add the following more abscure things that I have had to learn while plying poker online.

- Know when to walk away for a few minutes or even a few days if necessary. If you have experienced a string of bad beats/outdraws it will affect you unless you are Mr. Spock and have no emotions. YOU CAN'T PLAY EFFECTIVELY IF YOU ARE AFFECTED!

- When cards are running cold and you finally get that good hand (say AJs) and someone before you raises big... FOLD! Don't get frustrated because that's the first good hand you've had in 30 minutes and now you can't even feel good about playing it. All to often frustration at not seeing any good cards will make you call that raise only to find out that you are dominated when you should have know that that was probably the case pre-flop and laid that hand down.

- Once again, when cards are running cold or you have been outdrawn all night long and you finally get that good hand, don't be gun-shy if you are first in the pot. Play it the same way that you would play it when things are going well and you are feeling good. When things are going cold for me for a while I have found myself playing goods hands way to soft because I am afraid of losing too much money to being outdrawn.

- Don't get married to a good hand when you know deep down that there is a high likelyhood that you are beat. Lay it down, swallow your pride and save that bet for the next hand.

- Play tight-aggressive. I truly feel in my heart that this is the most profitable way to play poker over the long run. However, don't be afraid to mix it up once in a while if the table dictates it.

- Don't be afraid to stop for the night if things are going well. It is very difficult to stop when you are winning because you feel like you are on a roll. All to often that roll will end and you will find yourself on a downward swing again and end up the night losing everything that you won while on that roll and being even or, even worse, down for the night. The same holds true when things are going bad. Get out of that mindset of saying to yourself, "I'll just play until I can get myself even for the night." The next thing you know you've played yourself even further into the whole.

Well, that's all I can think of that was in addition to all of the other things people have mentioned. I still struggle with all of these things from time to time and it is an ongoing process. However, I do think that I am getting better at all of them.

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There's no point of dumping money out for free when you're on tilt. So to prevent that, don't put yourself in situations where you know you will go on tilt.

Beside evry thing about the tactics and bok reading i have a thing i try to do before logging into a gaim.
i check my stay off note that i have put on the computer and check if i´m any of the following if yes i try not to play
am I
S ad
T iered
A ngry
Y ield

O bsessive
F ear
f ull

(this sounds stupid but it has helped me a lot to not play when not on top)

AXs is not a group 1 hand, you don't want to be calling raises with it, the flush just doesn't happen that often and flopping a 4 flush can be very expensive if that last card doesn't come.

Hand groupings are not the be all and end all in SNG's, when i first startd i read a lot of ring game strategy and then used it in SNG's (as i hadn't fully appreciated the difference) where it wasn't massively helpful, it's all about the where you are in the blind structure that determines which hands to play.

Bluffing is hard to get right, especially at low limits, but satisfying when it works, it's also vital for MTT's.

That's all that comes to mind right now, and good post JM, not Fyr as Rip said.

{This post has been removed}

*Last edited by Legendash on Wed, 06 Oct 2004, 10:53am; edited 1 time in total*

Looks like a typically disturbing T0asty avatar to me! AAAAGH!

EDIT: Ah, he's changed it to a fit girl in her pants now, but trust me, it was scary.

There's a lot of things I had to learn in order to really step up my game. Off the top of my head and in no particular order...

1) The value of position and its relation to your starting hands.

2) Pot Odds - HUGE difference maker between an okay player and a great one.

3) When to bluff. I used to be way too tight and only play super premium hands. These are nice, and tight is still the way to play... but sometimes you just have to go for it and hope your opponent backs down.

4) Not to get tilted and try to make back big losses immediately. It's a slippery slope.

Respect rasies.. Don't call unless you call with out a stronger hand than you would open with.

Don't bluff calling stations.
They are all calling stations.

I think the biggest was the not drinking.

Heads up I rarely want a showdown.

Don't give the fish any credit. They could have ANYTHING.

As an ex-beginner (is that a category of poker player?) I'll add my own two little bits of advice for playing online:-

Concentrate on one form of poker (low stakes no limit for me) and make sure you only research this form. What's the point of playing tennis if you are taking advice on becoming a good table-tennis player?

Take your time! It's so easy to go into panic mode when there is a big bet against you (especially when playing more than one table) - don't make this mistake. There is always plenty of time to make the right call.

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What did you have to learn?

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What did you have to learn?