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Posted: Wed, 28 Dec 2005, 9:34pm Post subject: SSH starting chart |
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Flush

Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 341 WPP: 196
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| I've lost my copy of SSH. I think I left it on the subway. I've got it pretty much memorised, but there's a few little details I can't remember (raise with JK on the button?, ex.). Does anyone know where it is posted online? If you don't, would someone please reproduce it for me, for the tight tables, at least? I've ordered a new one, but it won't arrive for a while. |
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Posted: Wed, 28 Dec 2005, 10:03pm Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind

Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 1602 WPP: 105
Location: Party 6 max
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| Did you miss the part in SSH where is pretty much says that using a starting hand chart is stupid? |
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Posted: Wed, 28 Dec 2005, 10:09pm Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind

Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 3559 WPP: 97
Location: Your place or my place
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| Its around 2+2 ::shudder:: search for it. |
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Posted: Wed, 28 Dec 2005, 10:35pm Post subject: |
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Flush

Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 341 WPP: 196
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| Demiparadigm wrote: | | Did you miss the part in SSH where is pretty much says that using a starting hand chart is stupid? |
Yes.
| euphoricism wrote: | | Its around 2+2 ::shudder:: search for it. |
Thank you. I'll have a look. |
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Posted: Thu, 29 Dec 2005, 12:00am Post subject: |
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High Card

Joined: 19 Feb 2005
Posts: 3 WPP: 221
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At lower limits, it's fine to use a chart *if* you're learning why it's telling you to do things.
Later on, once you've got hands under your belt, you should be able to ditch the chart and adjust your hands to whatever table your playing on.
The money is made in poker after the flop, read the hand histories here and try to figure out the reasoning behind the decisions.
Read Fnord's stickies but remember that his game is very advanced so don't try to put all of his plays into practice until you're ready for the post-flop game. |
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Posted: Thu, 29 Dec 2005, 1:08am Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind

Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 1602 WPP: 105
Location: Party 6 max
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SSH pg. 77:
In general, do not spend too much time contemplating specific preflop plays. If you have to think about it too long, the options probably run close in value. Instead use that time to improve your postflop play.
Ed Miller has mentioned on 2p2 that he wishes he could just tear that part out of his book.
Good luck with your search. |
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Posted: Thu, 29 Dec 2005, 10:16am Post subject: |
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i wouldn't mind a change...

Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Posts: 4575 WPP: 87
Location: TagFish
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I've always advocated playing by the book until you learn why you're doing it. It at least gives you a better idea of what good hands are to play and goes into position.
Also, its a lot less confusing than HEPFAP's "group" hands that annoy the crap out of me. |
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Posted: Thu, 29 Dec 2005, 11:35am Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind

Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 3559 WPP: 97
Location: Your place or my place
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| I don't mind the newbies using the charts. I used em. I used remmy.net's for a while. But we all know that if the player doesn't know the "why" of the charts, he'll be in some trouble down the road. The sooner the player gets away from the charts, the better imho. |
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Posted: Thu, 29 Dec 2005, 2:30pm Post subject: |
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Full House

Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 966 WPP: 129
Location: st. paul, MO
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Miller also stated in SSH that the charts were adjusted some to make them simpler and easier to remember. I still play primarily by the chart, but I make slight adjustments for the table I am at, and also use more of a sliding chart ... In EP3 I'll add a couple hands from the MP chart, and in HJ I'll add some of the late position hands.
Another adjustment which I don't remember Miller mentioning is to tighten up on the more speculative hands in middle and late position when there are an unusually small amount of limpers that hand. For example, If I'm in the CO and there has only been 1 limper, I'm not going to play hands like 66 and 76s.
I also have a question ... how much should I loosen up my calling and raising standards at a table where many people will 3-bet and cap preflop just because they feel like it? I've seen a lot of people 3-bet any pocket pair, and cap with any old crap. |
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Posted: Thu, 29 Dec 2005, 3:41pm Post subject: |
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Straight

Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 130 WPP: 112
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| Xanadu wrote: |
Another adjustment which I don't remember Miller mentioning is to tighten up on the more speculative hands in middle and late position when there are an unusually small amount of limpers that hand. For example, If I'm in the CO and there has only been 1 limper, I'm not going to play hands like 66 and 76s. |
I too throw away alot of the marginal hands in mid to late position when there's only 1 or 2 limpers. Especially if I have someone that raises a lot preflop to my left. Then I am stuck with 2 bets in a 2-3 way point with a VERY speculative hand. |
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Posted: Sat, 31 Dec 2005, 9:01pm Post subject: |
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i wouldn't mind a change...

Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Posts: 4575 WPP: 87
Location: TagFish
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| Quote: | | If I'm in the CO and there has only been 1 limper, I'm not going to play hands like 66 |
You're losing value by not playing pocket pairs in these pots. Raise them bad boys to isolate the limper, you'll be surprised at how many pots you'll win unimproved and even bigger pots when you do hit a set as your hand is mighty concealed. |
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Posted: Sat, 31 Dec 2005, 9:30pm Post subject: |
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Full House

Joined: 16 Apr 2005
Posts: 949 WPP: 56
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| elipsesjeff wrote: | | Quote: | | If I'm in the CO and there has only been 1 limper, I'm not going to play hands like 66 |
You're losing value by not playing pocket pairs in these pots. Raise them bad boys to isolate the limper, you'll be surprised at how many pots you'll win unimproved and even bigger pots when you do hit a set as your hand is mighty concealed. |
Sometimes it's also good to limp along if your table is guaranteed to pay off if you hit your set. |
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Posted: Sat, 31 Dec 2005, 9:31pm Post subject: |
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i wouldn't mind a change...

Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Posts: 4575 WPP: 87
Location: TagFish
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| outphase wrote: | | elipsesjeff wrote: | | Quote: | | If I'm in the CO and there has only been 1 limper, I'm not going to play hands like 66 |
You're losing value by not playing pocket pairs in these pots. Raise them bad boys to isolate the limper, you'll be surprised at how many pots you'll win unimproved and even bigger pots when you do hit a set as your hand is mighty concealed. |
Sometimes it's also good to limp along if your table is guaranteed to pay off if you hit your set. | usually, with 1 limper, this is not the best. Raise to get the blinds out and you're more than a 50% favorite here HU. With another person in the pot your hand plays much differently and you are stuck folding to a donk bet on the flop than continuing on most boards.. |
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Posted: Sun, 01 Jan 2006, 6:40pm Post subject: |
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Full House

Joined: 05 Jan 2005
Posts: 1375 WPP: 55
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| elipsesjeff wrote: | | outphase wrote: | | elipsesjeff wrote: | | Quote: | | If I'm in the CO and there has only been 1 limper, I'm not going to play hands like 66 |
You're losing value by not playing pocket pairs in these pots. Raise them bad boys to isolate the limper, you'll be surprised at how many pots you'll win unimproved and even bigger pots when you do hit a set as your hand is mighty concealed. |
Sometimes it's also good to limp along if your table is guaranteed to pay off if you hit your set. | usually, with 1 limper, this is not the best. Raise to get the blinds out and you're more than a 50% favorite here HU. With another person in the pot your hand plays much differently and you are stuck folding to a donk bet on the flop than continuing on most boards.. | Well, it depends. Against a tighter player a flop continuation bet can often take it.
btw I have a table with the chart on my computer if you want it |
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Posted: Mon, 02 Jan 2006, 3:09pm Post subject: |
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Full House

Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 966 WPP: 129
Location: st. paul, MO
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| I agree with the raise for 66 in the CO at the right table, but at most tables I play at, it will usually be a 4 way pot ... the BB will almost always call, and typically either the Button or SB will cold call, leaving a bad situation for 66 whether you raise or not. This is with a very loose table that just happens to have only one limper for this hand. And I think the 66 is even worse off because with only 1 limper at a normally very loose table, there are a lot of high cards in the deck for the remaining 3 to act to hold and to flop. |
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