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SSH starting chart

  
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silverfist
Post Posted: Wed, 28 Dec 2005, 9:34pm    Post subject: SSH starting chart Reply with quote
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I've lost my copy of SSH. I think I left it on the subway. I've got it pretty much memorised, but there's a few little details I can't remember (raise with JK on the button?, ex.). Does anyone know where it is posted online? If you don't, would someone please reproduce it for me, for the tight tables, at least? I've ordered a new one, but it won't arrive for a while.
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Demiparadigm
Post Posted: Wed, 28 Dec 2005, 10:03pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Did you miss the part in SSH where is pretty much says that using a starting hand chart is stupid?
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euphoricism
Post Posted: Wed, 28 Dec 2005, 10:09pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Its around 2+2 ::shudder:: search for it.
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silverfist
Post Posted: Wed, 28 Dec 2005, 10:35pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Demiparadigm wrote:
Did you miss the part in SSH where is pretty much says that using a starting hand chart is stupid?


Yes.

euphoricism wrote:
Its around 2+2 ::shudder:: search for it.


Thank you. I'll have a look.
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newb1
Post Posted: Thu, 29 Dec 2005, 12:00am    Post subject: Reply with quote
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At lower limits, it's fine to use a chart *if* you're learning why it's telling you to do things.
Later on, once you've got hands under your belt, you should be able to ditch the chart and adjust your hands to whatever table your playing on.

The money is made in poker after the flop, read the hand histories here and try to figure out the reasoning behind the decisions.
Read Fnord's stickies but remember that his game is very advanced so don't try to put all of his plays into practice until you're ready for the post-flop game.
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Demiparadigm
Post Posted: Thu, 29 Dec 2005, 1:08am    Post subject: Reply with quote
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SSH pg. 77:

In general, do not spend too much time contemplating specific preflop plays. If you have to think about it too long, the options probably run close in value. Instead use that time to improve your postflop play.


Ed Miller has mentioned on 2p2 that he wishes he could just tear that part out of his book.

Good luck with your search.
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elipsesjeff
Post Posted: Thu, 29 Dec 2005, 10:16am    Post subject: Reply with quote
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I've always advocated playing by the book until you learn why you're doing it. It at least gives you a better idea of what good hands are to play and goes into position.

Also, its a lot less confusing than HEPFAP's "group" hands that annoy the crap out of me.
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euphoricism
Post Posted: Thu, 29 Dec 2005, 11:35am    Post subject: Reply with quote
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I don't mind the newbies using the charts. I used em. I used remmy.net's for a while. But we all know that if the player doesn't know the "why" of the charts, he'll be in some trouble down the road. The sooner the player gets away from the charts, the better imho.
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Xanadu
Post Posted: Thu, 29 Dec 2005, 2:30pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Miller also stated in SSH that the charts were adjusted some to make them simpler and easier to remember. I still play primarily by the chart, but I make slight adjustments for the table I am at, and also use more of a sliding chart ... In EP3 I'll add a couple hands from the MP chart, and in HJ I'll add some of the late position hands.

Another adjustment which I don't remember Miller mentioning is to tighten up on the more speculative hands in middle and late position when there are an unusually small amount of limpers that hand. For example, If I'm in the CO and there has only been 1 limper, I'm not going to play hands like 66 and 76s.

I also have a question ... how much should I loosen up my calling and raising standards at a table where many people will 3-bet and cap preflop just because they feel like it? I've seen a lot of people 3-bet any pocket pair, and cap with any old crap.
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Tripps7
Post Posted: Thu, 29 Dec 2005, 3:41pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Xanadu wrote:

Another adjustment which I don't remember Miller mentioning is to tighten up on the more speculative hands in middle and late position when there are an unusually small amount of limpers that hand. For example, If I'm in the CO and there has only been 1 limper, I'm not going to play hands like 66 and 76s.


I too throw away alot of the marginal hands in mid to late position when there's only 1 or 2 limpers. Especially if I have someone that raises a lot preflop to my left. Then I am stuck with 2 bets in a 2-3 way point with a VERY speculative hand.
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elipsesjeff
Post Posted: Sat, 31 Dec 2005, 9:01pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
i wouldn't mind a change...
i wouldn't mind a change...

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Quote:
If I'm in the CO and there has only been 1 limper, I'm not going to play hands like 66



You're losing value by not playing pocket pairs in these pots. Raise them bad boys to isolate the limper, you'll be surprised at how many pots you'll win unimproved and even bigger pots when you do hit a set as your hand is mighty concealed.
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outphase
Post Posted: Sat, 31 Dec 2005, 9:30pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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elipsesjeff wrote:
Quote:
If I'm in the CO and there has only been 1 limper, I'm not going to play hands like 66



You're losing value by not playing pocket pairs in these pots. Raise them bad boys to isolate the limper, you'll be surprised at how many pots you'll win unimproved and even bigger pots when you do hit a set as your hand is mighty concealed.


Sometimes it's also good to limp along if your table is guaranteed to pay off if you hit your set.
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elipsesjeff
Post Posted: Sat, 31 Dec 2005, 9:31pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
i wouldn't mind a change...
i wouldn't mind a change...

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outphase wrote:
elipsesjeff wrote:
Quote:
If I'm in the CO and there has only been 1 limper, I'm not going to play hands like 66



You're losing value by not playing pocket pairs in these pots. Raise them bad boys to isolate the limper, you'll be surprised at how many pots you'll win unimproved and even bigger pots when you do hit a set as your hand is mighty concealed.


Sometimes it's also good to limp along if your table is guaranteed to pay off if you hit your set.
usually, with 1 limper, this is not the best. Raise to get the blinds out and you're more than a 50% favorite here HU. With another person in the pot your hand plays much differently and you are stuck folding to a donk bet on the flop than continuing on most boards..
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iopq
Post Posted: Sun, 01 Jan 2006, 6:40pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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elipsesjeff wrote:
outphase wrote:
elipsesjeff wrote:
Quote:
If I'm in the CO and there has only been 1 limper, I'm not going to play hands like 66



You're losing value by not playing pocket pairs in these pots. Raise them bad boys to isolate the limper, you'll be surprised at how many pots you'll win unimproved and even bigger pots when you do hit a set as your hand is mighty concealed.


Sometimes it's also good to limp along if your table is guaranteed to pay off if you hit your set.
usually, with 1 limper, this is not the best. Raise to get the blinds out and you're more than a 50% favorite here HU. With another person in the pot your hand plays much differently and you are stuck folding to a donk bet on the flop than continuing on most boards..
Well, it depends. Against a tighter player a flop continuation bet can often take it.

btw I have a table with the chart on my computer if you want it
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Xanadu
Post Posted: Mon, 02 Jan 2006, 3:09pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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I agree with the raise for 66 in the CO at the right table, but at most tables I play at, it will usually be a 4 way pot ... the BB will almost always call, and typically either the Button or SB will cold call, leaving a bad situation for 66 whether you raise or not. This is with a very loose table that just happens to have only one limper for this hand. And I think the 66 is even worse off because with only 1 limper at a normally very loose table, there are a lot of high cards in the deck for the remaining 3 to act to hold and to flop.
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