Pros v internet players

Here in the UK, where poker has really been taking off in the last five to ten years, I hear nothing but complaints about internet players from pro players when I watch them in tournaments.

Why do pros not like internet players? I would have thought they would have welcomed them, especially considering that internet play is generally looser than live play. Is it a case that they haven't developed a strategy to beat internet players or that skilful play may be lost on such opponents?

Any thoughts?

I saw a segment on Fulltilts "Learn from the pros" program , and they were discussing internet players.

Internet players used to be looked down on by professional players before it started to become really popular.

I think as more time goes by, and more internet players start establishing themselves as real contenders in the poker world (the last 3 wsop winners), people are starting to realize that internet players are no joke.

Phil Ivey, Chris Furgeson, and a few others were discussing how much quicker the internet players learn the game than they learned it.. What may have taken them ten years to master can now be learned in 1-2 years, simply because the amount of hands played online is so much larger, and you can play more than one table at a time, giving you tons of hand experience. Also the freeflow of information on the internet has made the players alot tougher in general.

I think most of the pros who still look down on internet players (There aren't many anymore, as people are starting to realize that internet players can be just as good as any of the pros) are just either envious of players for learning so quickly, or ignorant to how quickly online poker can really teach new players the game.

{This post has been removed}

In all honesty, I've learned LHE, 7CS and Omaha all through playing online. I always got the feeling that pros looked down on internet players because a lot of internet players think they're the shit and they haven't proven anything yet.

I think the majority of the pro's have had a relatively elusive/exclusive life and with the popularity of televised poker and the internet they've lost a little of both. Not everone has had the mobility to uproot themselves and move to Vegas and play full time and for those who haven't the internet has opened up the poker realm so they can partake as well.

Obviously there will be a lot of poor players but there will be just as many, if not more elite players being produced as well. Additionally with the wealth of information out there the "pros" no longer have a lock on information which will level the playing field as well.

I think the biggest gripe arising from the pros is that their edge is no longer as great as it was and perhaps the earnings that they've been accustomed to is drying up a bit. They are no longer locked in a hermetically sealed enviorment in which they are familiar with all the players and their styles and they now have to start readapting since they are being challenged by often unorthodox play.

I think the pros reaction to modifying the WSOP main event is evidence of their sour grapes. While I think something should be done to restict the field so that the tournament can run fluidly and be maintainable, many pros are coming out and looking to completely modify the tournament itself. So while they've enjoyed the near Hollywood status of being a top pro, they only relish the popularity when it is thrust upon them but not when it brings in hundreds more into the games that they've dominated for so long.

I seriously doubt their revenue is drying up. Pros don't make money off other pros, they make money off the tourists and semi-serious amateurs. I'll bet there are a lot of people who play micro stakes online but play much bigger on a gambling vacation. These people might have played craps or blackjack 5 years ago but now more of them are playing poker and while they may even be better than the tourist of 5 years ago there is so much more poker being played out of people's league that the pro's overlay is probably just as good if not better.

Why would the pro's have a problem with internet players if they were constantly taking them for money? They wouldn't.

Perhaps the pros are frustrated because they have to change the way they play to beat them... Poor babies. Perhaps they're frustrated for getting donked out of tournies... Poor babies. Perhaps they resent the fact that many internet players are learning what took it took the pros years to master in only a matter of a few months... Poor babies. Perhaps their inflated egos won't allow they to admit that these internet players are becoming just as good or better than them.

A good professional knows to keep the live ones happy, so why would they make such comments?

The pro's in the UK dont like having their asses kicked because they dont know who they are playing.
Watch challenge TV most nights and you'll see a bunch of pros getting their asses pasted by internet qualifiers at short handed tables.

I know many live players complain about internet-players lacking social skills. Since many aren't that familiar with cardroom settings, they sometimes step over (invisible) lines.

Funny, I was watching ESPN 2005 WSOP a little last night ... and either Howard Lederer is a great actor for the cameras or he was seriously annoyed by nobodies playing back at him.

What internet poker teaches you is that a bluff is not a lie, it's just a play. There's no reason to be nervous about it. So I think that Pros don't expect big moves with crap from unknowns - EVEN THOUGH THEY KNOW THAT MUCH OF THE TIME they are being bluffed. Since they are typically agressive, making moves with not much - they often don't have the cards to call down.

The other thing to consider is this. Since the number of players has exploded (particularly in NL) - there is what biologists might call a "purifying selection". You have 100,000 random joes (and janes!) trying their hand at poker. Some of them are going to turn out to be naturally talented at it - even if 99.99% of them are donks - it's that last .01% who end up in the WSOP.

As a (flawed) analogy - major league baseball in 1955. Jackie Robinson breaks the color barrier in 1947. Now an additional 1/5th of the population is added to the talent pool. Poker is much worse. The talent pool is probably 100 or 1000 times larger than it was in 1995.

As an aside - playing your gutshots and sets the same way is probably +EV. However, I would like to get called down playing a set this way first...

I'm sure it's a combination of:
1. Some pro spent 15 years figuring out how to win at poker at a high level and some interNUT did the same in less than 2 years. (Then again that same pro wrote a book on how to do it)

2. Every pro has a bullseye on their head in WSOP. So, newbs are willing to chase a hand in hopes to take out a pro. Imagine how many bullets these guys have to dodge in order to make it to the final table.

I think the pro's that make it to the money often today are truly amazing. It shows that they are a cut above the other pros that "were good in the day".

[quote="zenbitz"]Funny, I was watching ESPN 2005 WSOP a little last night ... and either Howard Lederer is a great actor for the cameras or he was seriously annoyed by nobodies playing back at him.
quote]

I remember michael 1123 saying that he was constantly stealing poor Howard's BB from SB Smile

should check this but I am too lazy.. Neutral

Its been said that many of the pros have huge egos and for a guy who we all know by name to get played back at by an internet qualifier in the WSOP is a disrespect (in the pros eyes). "I'm Howard Lederer for Christ's sake. When I bluff you, you better fold, Internet bitch."

Internet players are assholes.

[quote="Pingviini"]

Can't speak for the pros but i know why i hate most internet players. There rude arrogant jerks.

They're jealous

Poker Forum

Poker Forum Index

NL Hold'em Strategies

Pros v internet players