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Posted: Mon, 20 Sep 2004, 4:38pm Post subject: limit hand for review
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Full House
Joined: 19 Mar 2004
Posts: 1405
WPP: 94
Location: Carlsbad, CA
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my thinking:
preflop call - good
flop call - good (3 to a str, backdoor flush, two overs, 'lotsa outs)
turn call - should have folded, 3 spades potentially ruin all of my outs
river call - double wrong - especially with 4 spades on the board
thoughts?
Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed)
Preflop: fishstick is MP2 with A , T.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 raises, fishstick calls, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls.
Flop: (6.50 SB) 8 , 9, 6 (3 players)
BB checks, MP1 bets, fishstick calls, BB folds.
Turn: (4.25 BB) 5 (2 players)
MP1 bets, fishstick calls.
River: (6.25 BB) 7 (2 players)
MP1 bets, fishstick calls.
Final Pot: 8.25 BB
Results in white below:
MP1 has Qs Qh (flush, queen high).
fishstick has Ac Tc (straight, ten high).
Outcome: MP1 wins 8.25 BB. |
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Posted: Mon, 20 Sep 2004, 4:48pm Post subject:
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Royal Flush
Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 17649
WPP: 83
Location: Walk the Walk, Flop the Flop.
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Fold pre-flop unless you're following or expect lots of other cold calls.
Flop is close (small pot), Turn is an easy fold. |
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Posted: Mon, 20 Sep 2004, 5:16pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 794
WPP: 208
Location: Los Angeles
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| Correct me if I'm wrong, but raising / capping preflop wouldn't be a bad choice either. |
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Posted: Mon, 20 Sep 2004, 5:25pm Post subject:
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Royal Flush
Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 17649
WPP: 83
Location: Walk the Walk, Flop the Flop.
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| allLiving wrote: | | Correct me if I'm wrong, but raising / capping preflop wouldn't be a bad choice either. |
Lol, and I thought I was LAggy... |
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Posted: Mon, 20 Sep 2004, 5:34pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 19 Mar 2004
Posts: 1405
WPP: 94
Location: Carlsbad, CA
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| Fnord wrote: | Fold pre-flop unless you're following or expect lots of other cold calls.
Flop is close (small pot), Turn is an easy fold. |
of course, every hand prior to this had 5-6 people seeing the flop...  |
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Posted: Mon, 20 Sep 2004, 6:37pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 02 Apr 2004
Posts: 1522
WPP: 82
Location: England UK
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Yeah I don't mind the PF call if you are expecting a multiway pot. If you cold call a raise don't expect to win when you make a pair of aces unless you have a high kicker.
You have a gutshot on the flop so the call is ok (loose though) but the turn is a deff fold. |
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Posted: Mon, 20 Sep 2004, 6:54pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 20 Dec 2003
Posts: 1943
WPP: 78
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| allLiving wrote: | | Correct me if I'm wrong, but raising / capping preflop wouldn't be a bad choice either. |
Way too over aggressive with ATs.
His raise is saying he's strong i'd start him with AJ+ TT+
All of those hands dominate your ATs..
Do you really want to raise with a dominated hand? |
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Posted: Mon, 20 Sep 2004, 7:03pm Post subject: Re: limit hand for review
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 20 Dec 2003
Posts: 1943
WPP: 78
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| fishstick wrote: |
preflop call - good
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Not in this position with no other people cold calling yet. You'd be better off saving your 1 bb on this hand.
| fishstick wrote: |
flop call - good (3 to a str, backdoor flush, two overs, 'lotsa outs)
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Think about your overs, they are probably tainted.
What do you think he pre-flop raised with, AJ - AK? If so your Ace is no good..
How about your T? If the T hits your staring at a near completed straight on the board.
What about your flush draw? Backdoor flush draw is about 1.5 outs. Not to mention THE BIG flush cards are probably taintd, I'd only count them as 1/2 an out.
| fishstick wrote: |
turn call - should have folded, 3 spades potentially ruin all of my outs
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Yes you should have folded, but not simply because of hte spades.
| fishstick wrote: |
river call - double wrong - especially with 4 spades on the board
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Yep severly tainted out there 
| fishstick wrote: |
thoughts?
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A few |
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Posted: Tue, 21 Sep 2004, 1:47pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 19 Mar 2004
Posts: 1405
WPP: 94
Location: Carlsbad, CA
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mike:
after thinking about it:
preflop - i'll concede a marginal call (to the raise) because of no limpers so far. i'm was following SSH's "loose game" hand requirements. with UTG1 and UTG2 folding, it should have been a limp or fold.
flop - i'm putting the preflop raiser on a high pocket pair, aces and tens not quite as likely because i've got one of each. i was playing the hand (also based on his flop bet) thinking i was against JJ - KK. thinking my ace would probably be good (if i paired it) and with the backdoor flush and 3 to a straight, i still think the flop call was good
turn - should have been a dump. i've got no pair, and while i don't really fear the flush (because i'm thinking he's got a high pair), i believe his pair will beat me unless i catch an ace.
river - i won't dignify my play with a response 
so, i guess i agree with all except i still think the flop call was reasonable. i'm still getting a feel for these small limit HE tables, and after seeing a lot of PF raising with hands like 88, 99, 9Ts, etc, i'm still not sure how to take some of these raises.
SSH is certainly helping.
also, for not liking my flop play, the would be one Banning Request Form for mike!  |
Last edited by fishstick on Tue, 21 Sep 2004, 3:57pm; edited 1 time in total
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Posted: Tue, 21 Sep 2004, 2:19pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 20 Dec 2003
Posts: 1943
WPP: 78
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| fishstick wrote: |
preflop - i'll concede a marginal call (to the raise) because of no limpers so far. i'm was following SSH's "loose game" hand requirements. with UTG1 and UTG2 folding, it should have been a limp or fold.
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You know the loose game is gear toward 7+ people in a pot? It'd rather use their Tight version and tighten up that too.
| fishstick wrote: |
flop - i'm putting the preflop raiser on a high pocket pair, aces and tens not quite as likely because i've got one of each.
i was playing the hand (also based on his flop bet) thinking i was against JJ - KK. thinking my ace would probably be good (if i paired it) and with the backdoor flush and 3 to a straight, i still think the flop call was good
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The flop call was 7:1 Yes you can make calls based off of this. What about the turn? Your going ot have to call another bet there. then your staring at 4:1 on your call.. Those are odds to call a flush, but they are so close, and your heads up. You've got no implied odds after that.
| fishstick wrote: |
turn - should have been a dump. i've got no pair, and while i don't really fear the flush (because i'm thinking he's got a high pair), i believe his pair will beat me unless i catch an ace.
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I agree.
| fishstick wrote: |
river - i won't dignify my play with a response
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Your such a calling station...
One thing i've learned is that I tend to compound mistakes in one hand. This is something i've learned to stop fast. If i make a bad preflop call and realize it I fold the hand immediatly. I do'nt try to make something happen by calling it down.
| fishstick wrote: |
so, i guess i agree with all except i still think the flop call was reasonable. |
I've already said my piece about the pre/flop plays But in your defense I've had 10 minutes to think it over. You had ot do it on the spot.
| fishstick wrote: |
SSH is certainly helping.
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Awesome book, I'm reading it now. I'm playing WAY tigher than he sugguests though.
I'm currently running 4BB/100 hands @ 2200 hands of .5/1 limit holdem.
| fishstick wrote: |
also, for not liking my flop play, the would be one Banning Request Form for mike! |
Ban me and I'll post your home phone number in the mens room of every truckstop between ohio and florida. Call for a good time.. any time.. day or night. Have lube will travel! |
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Posted: Tue, 21 Sep 2004, 4:07pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 19 Mar 2004
Posts: 1405
WPP: 94
Location: Carlsbad, CA
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| mike4066 wrote: | | You know the loose game is gear toward 7+ people in a pot? It'd rather use their Tight version and tighten up that too. |
their loose game hands are for 6-8 seeing the flop, but in my case with 2 folded, and MP player's raise sure to fold others... i think i'm going to stick with the tight version as well. a bet saved...
| mike4066 wrote: |
Your such a calling station... |
i've been through this with jm - don't make me come to ohio, 'cause i will! 
| mike4066 wrote: |
| fishstick wrote: |
SSH is certainly helping.
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Awesome book, I'm reading it now. I'm playing WAY tigher than he sugguests though.
I'm currently running 4BB/100 hands @ 2200 hands of .5/1 limit holdem. |
agreed on the book and keep up the good work!
| mike4066 wrote: |
| fishstick wrote: |
also, for not liking my flop play, the would be one Banning Request Form for mike! |
Ban me and I'll post your home phone number in the mens room of every truckstop between ohio and florida. Call for a good time.. any time.. day or night. Have lube will travel! |
i find this to be an immature comment, so let just say: "dude, you suck!"  |
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Posted: Tue, 21 Sep 2004, 4:23pm Post subject:
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Royal Flush
Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 17649
WPP: 83
Location: Walk the Walk, Flop the Flop.
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| fishstick wrote: | | mike4066 wrote: | | You know the loose game is gear toward 7+ people in a pot? It'd rather use their Tight version and tighten up that too. |
their loose game hands are for 6-8 seeing the flop, but in my case with 2 folded, and MP player's raise sure to fold others... i think i'm going to stick with the tight version as well. a bet saved...
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Ditto on that. Assume the game is SSH "tight" until proven otherwise. I think his loose game advise is for playing against a table full of crack addicts and gamboolors. Party has some of both, but there are enough sharks around such that the table is rarely full of them. |
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