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Miffed22001
Post Posted: Sun, 31 Jul 2005, 5:15pm    Post subject: More options. Reply with quote
Straight Flush
Straight Flush

Joined: 21 Jun 2005
Posts: 7706
WPP: 71
Location: Petra Marklund FTW ^^^^
Ok, ive been having a nasty run of running into hands recently so im looking for different options on how to play these hands. Usually my strategy seems ok, but i'd like some other options if possible.

.1/.2 blinds cash table, 6 max.

I get TT in lp, pot has 4 limpers before me so i rasie my standard to 4bbs.
two fold, one pushes all in for a 3rd my stack next guy flat calls it. I think real hard about that call, he has probably 2/3rds my stack if i push. Im guessing the pusher is a lower pp, but this caller is a problem.
Anyway i push and he calls with pocket aces i lose most of my stack.

Am i getting away from this. If im critical, when that guy called it i should have folded it had only cost me 4bbs i was up and doing ok. Yet i sensed the stength of his hand but when ahead aggressive anyway. Also, i considered myself well infront of the first pusher.
Options?
1. Can i get away from this?
2. I thought that with position i would be able to take a stab at winning the pot post flop with TT as my raises are always 4bb and whether im on an overpair or just face cards is probably hard to tell. I hit all flops the same unless its obvious i could be beat. Therefore was raising a marginal hand in TT ok in lp or should i be prepared to start calling with it?

2+.5 sng.
(i think this is a just a plain beat, but i'd like other options)
Im dealt AA in mp. I call as this table has been aggressive in lp so im reasonably satisfied their will be a raise in lp. There is to 4bbs. I call. Its heads up
Flop is all rags so i bet half the pot and other guy pushes all in. I call.
He has Ax spades and hits a runner runner flush.

Ive been flat calling raises recently in the hope of catching someone with a weaker hand (eg no reraise with AK or AA but definatly with KK maybe even QQ) Here i was certain i was ahead, but generally is this strategy right or should i have the guy all in pre flop (i hope that i can get more chips outta him if i just call his raise. eg if he hits cards on the flop (K,Q, J even or an ace ive got him beaten anyway)
is this startegy correct or should i be looking to rerasie preflop or even make a bigger bet post flop?

.1/.2 blinds, cash table, 6max.
Im dealt QQ in ep.
Not sure here so opinions welcome.
raise 4bbs in ep, im trying here to limit the numbers that see the flop. Again ill bet the pot at any over cards in the hope that my hand will be difficult to read.
I get two callers after me.
Flop is rainbow 224.
i bet half the pot to see where i am (i guess thats a sign of weakness as i normally hit most flops with a full pot bet if im infront)Here i actually was at this point. One guy folds one guy calls. Turn is a 6. I suppose thats a scare card. So i check it. He minimum bets it and i call hoping for a miricle river card. Its a Jack. He bets about a quarter of the pot. I fold and he shows the straight with a 3 and 5.
1. Am i right to raise the pot in ep? I need a heads up or short handed situation to have any chance of winning the pot. If i just call and there are overcards i would argue that ive wasted a very good hand. Therefoe i justify my raise from ep.
2. I bet half the pot and i guess i killed his drawing odds. And i had to check the scare card with a potential set on the board as well as a straight. Was this correct? If he'd checeked the turn and then bet the river i may have been tempted to call thinking he was trying to bluff, but because he minimum bet the turn and then made a tantalising bet on the river i guessed i was probably beat. Good read or weak?

Normally i would have pot bet the flop, that may have scared him off i dont know. Is this a correct play? I bet the pot if i think im in front or im bluffing overcards with a good hand, trying to make a read difficult. Also was it correct to lower my flop bet in the light of a pair of twos on the flop?
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Staresy
Post Posted: Mon, 01 Aug 2005, 5:41am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Full House
Full House

Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 1240
WPP: 112
Location: Following the Herd to 6-Max Land
OK, here's my $0.02's worth .....

Miffed22001 wrote:
I get TT in lp, pot has 4 limpers before me so i rasie my standard to 4bbs.


Whilst a standard 4xBB raise is ok if it is you opening the pot, if I were raising from MP with limpers in front, I would fire out a 4 +no. of limpers XBB bet. This is especially true when you are playing …

Miffed22001 wrote:
.1/.2 blinds cash table, 6 max.


A 4xBB bet in any case isn’t going to drive out the early limpers and, the moment one calls, the players behind are now getting better and better odds to call your raise. The last thing you need with TT is to be facing three other players in the pot.

One alternative could be for you not to raise when u pick up TT in a multi-way pot. Call and play for a set. If you hit, you are going to make it up big time because it is almost inevitable that someone will pay you off.

Miffed22001 wrote:
two fold, one pushes all in for a 3rd my stack next guy flat calls it. I think real hard about that call, he has probably 2/3rds my stack if i push. Im guessing the pusher is a lower pp, but this caller is a problem.
Anyway i push and he calls with pocket aces i lose most of my stack.

Yet i sensed the stength of his hand but when ahead aggressive anyway..


This is probably more suited to tournament play, but most of the best plays you will ever make are laydowns. A cash game is different because you can re-load, but it all comes down to a simple case of discipline. This cannot be taught. If you are recognising that you are beat before hand and call anyway, you are going to lose.

Miffed22001 wrote:
2+.5 sng.
(i think this is a just a plain beat, but i'd like other options)
Im dealt AA in mp. I call as this table has been aggressive in lp so im reasonably satisfied their will be a raise in lp. There is to 4bbs. I call. Its heads up
Flop is all rags so i bet half the pot and other guy pushes all in. I call.
He has Ax spades and hits a runner runner flush.


First mistake was presuming that there would be a raise in LP. Don’t ever rely on there being one. Force the issue. You should raise and hope to get re-raised when you are sitting there with AA. After you are raised in LP, this is the situation you wanted, it is time to come back over the top. Whilst I can see the merit in flat calling to disguise your hand, I don’t think at the lower stakes this is worth it. You might as well re-raise because people just assume you are bluffing. Next up, don’t bet half the pot here. Bet the pot

Other than that, this is a bad beat.

Miffed22001 wrote:
.1/.2 blinds, cash table, 6max.
Im dealt QQ in ep.
Not sure here so opinions welcome.
raise 4bbs in ep, im trying here to limit the numbers that see the flop. Again ill bet the pot at any over cards in the hope that my hand will be difficult to read.


This seems ok so far……

Miffed22001 wrote:
I get two callers after me.
Flop is rainbow 224.
i bet half the pot to see where i am (i guess thats a sign of weakness as i normally hit most flops with a full pot bet if im infront)Here i actually was at this point. One guy folds one guy calls.


bet the pot here. Betting half provides someone with (4+4+4BB your bet plus 2 callers, +1.5BB from the blinds?+~6BB from your flop bet and then 6BB to call = 6BB into 19.5BB) >3:1 to call. Who is going to call your raise w/ a 2? No-one. Who is going to call with a lone 4? No-one but it doesn’t even matter if they have.

Miffed22001 wrote:
Turn is a 6. I suppose thats a scare card. So i check it.


NO, NO, NO, NO. The 6 isn’t a scare card, it’s exactly what you want so you should bet out or even move in here. You are only worried about KK, AA, 44 or 66 now and if they’ve got one of those, pray for a Q on the river, type “nh” in the chat and find the next game or re-load.

Miffed22001 wrote:
1. Am i right to raise the pot in ep? I need a heads up or short handed situation to have any chance of winning the pot. If i just call and there are overcards i would argue that ive wasted a very good hand. Therefoe i justify my raise from ep.


you are absolutely right to raise in EP. However, at these penny tables, a person does not see 4Xbb bet. They see 8c to call. You should be firing out mega-bullets with premium hands here. 8-10xBB.
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spivee69
Post Posted: Mon, 01 Aug 2005, 2:05pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
High Card
High Card

Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 8
WPP: 241

I agree with Staresy's responses pretty much. I have the same problems as you somewhat in the low limit games. Betting 3-4x the bb seems fairly standard, but in the low limit games, you really need to pump these raises up a bit more or you're gonna get a lot of callers. These games are a lot looser and to cut down on the people in the pot, you have to make it more dangerous for them to play. You might scare everybody out of the hand, but with as loose as these games get, you tend to get enough callers to make it profitable and winning a few small pots is better than losing a few large ones.

A lot of knowing how much to raise just comes from feel and experience. If betting 4x the bb isn't pushing people out like you expect, switch up and start betting 6x or 8x and see what that does for you. You can make generalizations, but every table is different and you'll just have to develop the ability to get the feel of the table and adjust accordingly.

With respect to the specifics of your plays, like I said, I agree with Staresy basically, but my .02¢... with pocket tens or queens preflop or a straight or flush draw after the flop, I like to raise agressively. I may just call with the tens and try to catch my set. It really depends on the table, play history and what gear I'm playing at the time.

With tens, if you don't hit your set, there are several people coming in before you. If it checks to you, bet a bit to try to win the pot. A big bet before you and you're out. A medium sized bet, you have to make a 'feel' call.

With queens, if an A or K comes on the flop, you're fairly hosed unless you have a weak player or a really good read on your opponent. Betting well before the flop will often drive out a weak king or ace, and if they call, it may make it easier to put them on a hand.

If there are two to a flush or straight on the board, and if you don't make them pay for the next card, if something comes out to help that draw, you're in trouble. By betting small post flop and after the turn, they may see this as weakness and put you to the test, and at this point, without having put them to a difficult decision, you don't have a good read of what they may be holding.
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