Reraise with AA.

Alright, suppose you have AA and it's raised infront of you (Though it doesn't matter, let's say 4bb).

Your plan is to reraise. Both you and op have equal 100 bb stacks.

To what minimum value should you reraise so that you can commit yourself to any flop (Simply push reguardless of action or texture of the board) so that it is +EV?

Make the following assumptions:

You will be commited to any flop reguardless of op, action or board.
Op is not commited to calling.
Op will call preflop reraise.
Hand is HU.
If op outflops you, you will not catch up. (You wont hit any outs)
Hand basically ends on the flop as you will push.

-'rilla

that kind of question depends on a huge list of variables. is this a person who overplays big cards/smaller pairs? does he understand that limp/raises or raises from the blinds indictate big hands?

im not sure you can find any generic amount to raise that would commit him on any flop if you both had 100bb stacks.

if you raised 4x his bet it might be possible, but i think hes going to be wary on any flop and only call if he has you beat - especially considering that he does have position on you.

do you think strategies like that can be applied at your stakes?

I'm just trying to avoid specifics right now. I want a no-brainers approach. 1/3rd of the stack seems a bit too much, though. Surely even 1/5th would be profitable.

-'rilla

slightly related story:

I have a friend who was in a big 10-20 NL game at the Bellagio, with no max buy-in. A person raised, and another guy pushed all-in for $7k. He looked down at 2 aces, and had about $5k in chips, and told me he almost considered folding for a minute.

Most people would say "omg call", and he did call and won a huge pot, but he also said the game was so good he could have won his money without risking a 4:1 coinflip for $5000.

I can imagine the pain of being 2 outted for $5000 is pretty substantial

Where's Zenbitz or some other math machine to clear my thoughts when you need them?

-'rilla

Well this is simpler then you might think, for what you are asking.

First of all you need to know the chance of him flopping better then you (2 pair or better) which I believe is 3.8%? Then find out the chance that you also flop 2pair or better and subtract it. This will be the % of time he has you beat.

For simplicity, if we just say every time he flops 2pair or better you are beaten (which isn't the case) then you will be beaten about 4% of the time (if my memory serves me correctly)

So 1 out of 25 times you are beaten on the flop. So you just need to get in 5BB of his stack to make it EV+, which is significantly less then you might think. I'm sure some of my numbers are wrong, but the logic is there.

i think that looking at just the flop, a lower pocket pair is the worst case scenario. they're going to outflop you 12% of the time. so, after the flop, you're 88% at worst to be ahead.

so, i'm pretty sure you barely need to get anything into the pot preflop to make the flop call worth it. you're ahead 88% of the time. Say he raised to 4BB, you reraised to 12, and he calls. on the flop, you would be betting 88BB to try to win 112BB. not sure the right way to say it, but this % is 78%, and you're 88% to win. if you reraised to 8BB, then you'd be betting 92BB on the flop to try to win 108, which gives you 85%, which is still below 88%. so basically, if you minraise preflop, you are pot committed. is my thinking right?

I don't mean to re-direct this thread, but is this the usual play for AA and KK: Raise 1/5 your stack and push on any flop (except Ace flop with KK).

I play NL$25, and I've been re-raising 'a callable amount' and then betting the pot to try to eliminate draws, but keep in TPTK.

I think this thread is ONLY if someone has raised ahead of you. If you're the first raiser, you just go 4xbb (or whatever amount you think it takes to get heads up). Are you still going all in on the flop here?

It would hard to make a +EV call every time, because if they make trips you are drawing very thin and must be making a -EV play by calling post flop.

My answer is re-raise as much as I think he will cal PF. Razz

I don't think anyone mentioned the money that is already in the pot when it comes back to the original raiser. This changes the math a little.

If he raises 4xBB and you reraise to 20xBB, his choice is whether to call 16xBB to win 104xBB (assuming full stack implied odds). So he is getting 6.5-to-1 before the flop.

As another example, if he raises 8xBB and you reraise to 20xBB, his choice is whether to call 12xBB to win 108xBB. So he is getting 9-to-1 before the flop.

So you need to increase the amount you reraise based on the size of his original raise.

this is what i always do. (let's not talk about the position right now)

I re-raise with premium hands, AA,KK,AK,QQ.

I raise/call with strong hands, AKo, AQ, KQ, etc.

I call with any pockets below 8s. u get the point

Anyway, if someone has been raising all day long with decent hands then I would most likely reraise his bet by a little...make him come over the top then push him all in. If someone who has been playing tight...eh, you get the point. In a low limit game, the AA loses their value so quick because people will fish til the end, however in a NL game. Make them pay for it. I mean you have the best hand before the flop. You were lucky enough to get it (1:36) and dont let some other punk be luckier.

From a guy who plays aggressive with good cards...I wouldnt try to trap someone with AAs by slowing playing em because you never know if the other guy is trapping YOU by hitting a set or even a flush/straight draw...or maybe even 2 pairs.

The only time I would be scared to have the rockets is when some newb guy calls me. Newbies that call with 2,8 os shit like that and hit their runner runner flush or get 2 pairs...to crack my rockets...it sucks.

J10 is the BEST rocket crackers!

I think either option is acceptable. Pushing over the top isn't wrong, but I would probably call here. I think if you are BRed, calling is definately a more +EV move in the long run than pushing.

(someone correct me if I'm wrong....) You want worse hands to get in the pot with you pf, so then when you push the flop it puts them to a difficult decision with what will most likely be inferior cards. Yes, the potential for suckout is larger if you let more hands see the flop, but poker is about the long run. If you run this situation over and over, the sum of the all stacks you will lose when they hit their set is much, much less than the sum of the profit you will make when each time no one improves on the flop and KK or QQ goes all in or calls your push on a garbage board (Or when your AA improves to top set, crushing whatever hand they have)

EDIT: wouldnt this even be true if you had the same preflop action, but went into the flop 6 or 7 handed? The variance on this play would be rediculous, but its still very +EV right? If you go to a flop say 6 handed, and 6x your buyin or more will eventually compose the pot, then you only have to win 1/6 times to make it a correct play, and doesnt AA get better od

Poker Forum

Join Our Poker Community!

Poker Forum Index

Beginners Circle

Reraise with AA.