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Posted: Mon, 29 Mar 2004, 12:31pm Post subject: Jx Suited and luck=$$$ |
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Flush
Joined: 12 Feb 2004
Posts: 389
WPP: 326
Location: IL
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| I have this friend and this weekend he has made over 350$. The thing I just do not understand is how he did it. I have watched him play and he has told me which hands he plays and his philosophies behind it. First of all, he plays anything Ax, Kx, Qx, Jx suited. He never raises from late position and raise hands like JTs in only early positions. He does not raise aces unless he is in early position. But the thing that is driving crazy most of all is that he said that if he raised with aces pre flop and someone re-raise him all in he would not call. I just want to hear some comments on this type of play. |
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Posted: Mon, 29 Mar 2004, 1:10pm Post subject: Re: Jx Suited and luck=$$$ |
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Royal Flush
Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 16963
WPP: 83
Location: Raise Pre-flop, Check/Raise Flop
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| !Luck wrote: | | First of all, he plays anything Ax, Kx, Qx, Jx suited. |
Starting hands are overated in NL because of the huge implied odds on a limp. Personally, I don't like Qxs and Jxs, unless X is at least a 2 gap to a straight. Neither one have much hope of a nut flush.
| !Luck wrote: |
He never raises from late position and raise hands like JTs in only early positions. He does not raise aces unless he is in early position.
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Why? Sounds backwards....
| !Luck wrote: |
But the thing that is driving crazy most of all is that he said that if he raised with aces pre flop and someone re-raise him all in he would not call. I just want to hear some comments on this type of play. |
One leak does not make a bad player. It's all about putting in your money when you have the best of hit and hoping it holds up.
I'm curious what your friend is doing right. What's his post-flop play? What bluffs is he making and picking up? Table selection strategy? etc. |
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Posted: Mon, 29 Mar 2004, 1:40pm Post subject: |
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Flush
Joined: 12 Feb 2004
Posts: 389
WPP: 326
Location: IL
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"Why? Sounds backwards.... "
Yeah it did sound backwards, he told me that this way he gets rid of a lot of opponents while raising in the late position the raise must be a much greater to get people out of the hand. He does not like to risk too much money. He plays a lot of hands 109o 89o and small suited connecters any position.
He said he does not bluff but once I saw him play jts and flop is A T X off suite. He bets 3 (50NL) the guy calls(only caller). I told him that the other person(pretty bad) always stays in if he has an A. so I was pretty sure he had an Ace. My friend got another T on the Turn. So now he has trips and he bets 5(More or less agree). Then the river is a blank. He bets 40+ on a 15 dollar pot. I was thinking, correct me if I am wrong, this could be an okay chance to check raise and if you do bet you might as well bet less since you actually want him to call. I think he could have gotten another 5 out of the guy. He also plays on whims like he might not call with an open ended straight draw but will call the same exact bet(in relation to pot at least) with a belly buster straight draw. Table selection strategy is almost non-existent he just picks tables where he has to wait the fewest hands before being big blind. He never posts dead (My advice). He just says he like to play a lot of hands so he can get "lucky" that is why he does not like to go all in preflop; too much luck for him. I tried to explain to him that if you raise with AA (3-5 in NL 25) the only people who are going to call you are other pockets and aks, ak and maybe risk takers too. He was like yeah .... so. I will show him the math but I told him you have over an 80% chance to AA vs. KK heads up. |
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Posted: Mon, 29 Mar 2004, 2:28pm Post subject: |
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But who will mod the mods?!
Joined: 04 Dec 2003
Posts: 5006
WPP: 105
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
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| I've given up trying to explain odds and numbers to people who insist on believing this game is still about whims and luck. |
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Posted: Mon, 29 Mar 2004, 5:14pm Post subject: |
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Royal Flush
Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 16963
WPP: 83
Location: Raise Pre-flop, Check/Raise Flop
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Yeah, no kidding. This guy has definately hit a wall if he's keeps thinking like that.
I'm just curious what part of the game he's getting right... I always study how other successful players play and look for bits to add to my game. Something's missing or he got really lucky or he's not honest about his longer term bankroll position.
You said he does not bluff. How good is he at picking up bluffs when he has a marginal hand? I find it difficult to beleive he could be successful at the $50 NL table without one or both skills. |
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Posted: Mon, 29 Mar 2004, 6:55pm Post subject: |
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Flush
Joined: 12 Feb 2004
Posts: 389
WPP: 326
Location: IL
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I was watching him play today and he was limping in with q7 suited hit top pair bets pot (4) get called, at this point I said " the other person probably has a q too and chances are with a better kicker" he continues to bet half pot bets till river without his hand improving the other guy turned out to have a q9s. As I watched him play today I saw him lose 100. He does not bluff but at the same time he will drop a two pair if some one bets strong. ex he had 45s flop 45T he bets pot get re raised 15 he folds. I don't remember what the guy had. I put him on trips. I think my friend plays post flop really well and most of the time he has the power to lay down the second best hand. I was actually thinking of adding 67s to my game just to show variety in my play. I think he plays best against good players because he is very hard to read and I have seen good player call his big bets when he has limped in with AA.
One thing that i might add to my game is the fact that he bets when he hits top pair even with weak kicker. I noticed most of the time he just takes the pot right there and if he does not he knows that he should fold because he is beat. |
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Posted: Mon, 29 Mar 2004, 7:02pm Post subject: |
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But who will mod the mods?!
Joined: 04 Dec 2003
Posts: 5006
WPP: 105
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
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| !Luck wrote: | | One thing that i might add to my game is the fact that he bets when he hits top pair even with weak kicker. I noticed most of the time he just takes the pot right there and if he does not he knows that he should fold because he is beat. |
This is standard play for me. Typically (and most especially if the table's seen me win a few holding premium hands), no matter what my kicker is, I'll bet the pot if it's checked or min. bet to me and I've flopped the top pair. This way, I'll know right away if someone else has the top pair (rather than speculate in a later round). If I get called, I'll check the next round and fold if the caller bets without my hand improving. If I get re-raised, I'll fold.
Oftentimes, what will happen is that another person may have the top pair with a mediocre kicker (but still better than my low kicker) and he'll fold to my bet. |
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Posted: Mon, 29 Mar 2004, 8:43pm Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 19 Dec 2003
Posts: 1934
WPP: 77
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| Xianti wrote: |
Oftentimes, what will happen is that another person may have the top pair with a mediocre kicker (but still better than my low kicker) and he'll fold to my bet. |
Yep, I'll bet the flop with my top pair/weak kicker if it happens. My goal is to take the pot right there. I'll fold to a re-raise or heavy action if things don't improve. |
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Posted: Tue, 30 Mar 2004, 1:19am Post subject: |
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Royal Flush
Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 16963
WPP: 83
Location: Raise Pre-flop, Check/Raise Flop
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| !Luck wrote: | | ex he had 45s flop 45T he bets pot get re raised 15 he folds. |
Not sure I could make that laydown. Depends on the player and stack sizes. Smells like top pair or an overpair trying to take control. Or perhaps a super-aggressive on a draw. I might gamble here and go all-in.
| !Luck wrote: |
I think he plays best against good players because he is very hard to read and I have seen good player call his big bets when he has limped in with AA. |
...and showdown their scrub 2 pair? Then again the only time I've actually played AA from a limp and made a laydown it was wrong. I will only limp with AA if I'm certain I'm not getting called or very likely to catch a raise behind me.
| !Luck wrote: |
One thing that i might add to my game is the fact that he bets when he hits top pair even with weak kicker |
Into a small field (3 or fewer others) that limped without too much call-stationess opening the betting with as little as a gutshot draw into the right board is sometimes correct. However, Ace-little or King-little from early position is often a check with top pair. |
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