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Posted: Tue, 30 Jun 2009, 12:07pm Post subject: Pokerstars BS
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Straight
Joined: 14 May 2009
Posts: 217
WPP: 65
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THis is the first set I've gotten since playing NLHE Cash Games, I usually play sitngos but started cahs games 3 days ago. I'm just lucky I didn't buy into the tabel for $2, but $1 instead. Anyway, enjoy!
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
SB ($0.90)
BB ($5.68)
UTG ($5.25)
Hero (UTG+1) ($0.89)
MP1 ($2.18)
MP2 ($2)
CO ($3.77)
Button ($1.96)
Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 7 , 7
1 fold, Hero calls $0.02, 1 fold, MP2 bets $0.10, CO calls $0.10, 2 folds, BB calls $0.08, Hero calls $0.08
Flop: ($0.41) 9, J , 7 (4 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.25, MP2 calls $0.25, CO calls $0.25, 1 fold
Turn: ($1.16) 9 (3 players)
Hero bets $0.54 (All-In), MP2 calls $0.54, CO raises to $1.08, MP2 calls $0.54
River: ($3.86) 2 (3 players, 1 all-in)
MP2 bets $0.57 (All-In), CO calls $0.57
Total pot: $5 | Rake: $0.20
Results:
Hero mucked 7, 7 (full house, sevens over nines).
MP2 had J, J (full house, Jacks over nines).
CO had 9, 9 (four of a kind, nines).
Outcome: CO won $4.80 |
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Posted: Tue, 30 Jun 2009, 12:38pm Post subject:
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Two Pair
Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 35
WPP: 89
Location: Sarajevo
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Wow, what a situation.
I think you'll rarely see something like this happen. Luckily you didn't buy in for 2$, but I'd suggest you buy in with 2$, learn to play with 100BB effective stack. You can't really do anything on the table with 1$. You'll get called more often when you're shortstacked and loose more than you'll win. |
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Posted: Tue, 30 Jun 2009, 12:43pm Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 27 Dec 2004
Posts: 551
WPP: 187
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WOw, that's pretty sick. Set over set should only happen once out of every 100 times you flop an underset. And for every time it happens to you, you will do it to someone else. But, set over set over set of which one turns to quads is pretty crazy.  Hey, that's poker, though. Keep playing you'll see even more crazy things. I'm surprised the money didn't get all-in on the flop.
Definitely play with 100BB if you want to learn and play effective cash games. |
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Posted: Tue, 30 Jun 2009, 1:34pm Post subject:
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Straight
Joined: 14 May 2009
Posts: 217
WPP: 65
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| I think everyone was trying to slow play it except me because I was afraid of strait draws and I knew an Overpair was never folding. But I wanted value so I bet small so I could get 3 way. Didn't expect to have the worse of 3 hands. I buy in with $2 when I play 2 tables but when I play 4, I only buy in with $1 because my bankroll is pretty small. |
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Posted: Tue, 30 Jun 2009, 9:06pm Post subject:
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Strike 3
Joined: 30 Jun 2009
Posts: 17
WPP: 9
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| but is not a bad beats with higher probability to 80 |
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Posted: Tue, 30 Jun 2009, 9:09pm Post subject:
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Eats babies
Joined: 28 Feb 2006
Posts: 3866
WPP: 109
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| The beat is that you can't call preflop for set odds because your too short. You lost here with or without winning the pot. Learn to play Shorthanded poker or learn to play 100BB deep or lose your roll. This is bad on your part. |
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Posted: Wed, 01 Jul 2009, 1:37am Post subject:
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Straight
Joined: 03 Aug 2007
Posts: 171
WPP: 95
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It's rare, but it does happen. It happened to me about 2 weeks ago, I had bottom set and lost set over set over set.
Do listen to the above advice though and learn to play deep. It opens up so many options and allows you to really profit from the terrible players.
GL at cash game. |
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Posted: Wed, 01 Jul 2009, 10:51am Post subject:
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Straight
Joined: 14 May 2009
Posts: 217
WPP: 65
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| I know it was stupid to call preflop. I had gone 30ish pairs without flopping a set and figured I was due (I know, it's stupid). I was right that I would flop a set, unfortunately it wasn't enough to win. |
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Posted: Wed, 01 Jul 2009, 12:40pm Post subject:
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Eats babies
Joined: 28 Feb 2006
Posts: 3866
WPP: 109
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| golfguy37 wrote: | | I know it was stupid to call preflop. I had gone 30ish pairs without flopping a set and figured I was due (I know, it's stupid). I was right that I would flop a set, unfortunately it wasn't enough to win. | Your not understanding this are you. You can't flop sets with 50BB's just calling to flop a set is losing money becasue you don't have enough money to make up for the 12% of the times you do. You are playing in a way that will lose money the more hands you play.
Basically if I rigged the deck preflop to have you get a pocket pair (PP) every time and I had any two cards (ATC) and I raised and you called to flop a set, that if you fold every time I C-bet because you missed your set and we got it all in (AI) every time you did, you would lose everything you have over time. You cannot win using these thoughts. This is one of the many things that bad poker players do that they think wins them money but actually makes informed poker players money over 100's of thousands of hands. Whether or not you flop that set, you lost money, because over time you will make this call and lose 7.5 times out of 8.5. Multiply that by 4BB+ that you called you would need to make on avg 30BB's evertime you flop a set. Not happening, becasue you will lose to flushes, you will lose to set over sets and you will get too many folds before you get to shove it in. I haven't even added inthe fact that you now need to make up for losing stacks when you do lose to those hands. |
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Posted: Wed, 01 Jul 2009, 3:39pm Post subject:
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Straight
Joined: 14 May 2009
Posts: 217
WPP: 65
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| ok, I get it. I buy into tables with $2 from now on. Thanks! |
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Posted: Wed, 01 Jul 2009, 4:39pm Post subject:
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Straight
Joined: 14 May 2009
Posts: 217
WPP: 65
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Was up $2 on the session when this happened. I was "sitting out next blind" when it happened.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
UTG ($1.36)
UTG+1 ($2.91)
Hero (MP1) ($3.22)
MP2 ($1.52)
CO ($2.79)
Button ($2.96)
SB ($1)
BB ($1.87)
Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K, K
2 folds, Hero bets $0.08, 1 fold, CO calls $0.08, Button calls $0.08, 2 folds
Flop: ($0.27) J, 6, 6 (3 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $0.20, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.80, CO raises to $2.71 (All-In), Hero calls $1.91
Turn: ($5.69) 3 (2 players, 1 all-in)
River: ($5.69) J (2 players, 1 all-in)
Total pot: $5.69 | Rake: $0.25
Results:
Hero had K, K (two pair, Kings and Jacks).
CO had J, A (full house, Jacks over sixes).
Outcome: CO won $5.44 |
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Posted: Wed, 01 Jul 2009, 7:53pm Post subject:
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Two Pair
Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 35
WPP: 89
Location: Sarajevo
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| golfguy37 wrote: | Was up $2 on the session when this happened. I was "sitting out next blind" when it happened.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
UTG ($1.36)
UTG+1 ($2.91)
Hero (MP1) ($3.22)
MP2 ($1.52)
CO ($2.79)
Button ($2.96)
SB ($1)
BB ($1.87)
Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K, K
2 folds, Hero bets $0.08, 1 fold, CO calls $0.08, Button calls $0.08, 2 folds
Flop: ($0.27) J, 6, 6 (3 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $0.20, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.80, CO raises to $2.71 (All-In), Hero calls $1.91
Turn: ($5.69) 3 (2 players, 1 all-in)
River: ($5.69) J (2 players, 1 all-in)
Total pot: $5.69 | Rake: $0.25
Results:
Hero had K, K (two pair, Kings and Jacks).
CO had J, A (full house, Jacks over sixes).
Outcome: CO won $5.44 |
I'd shove the flop here.
Can someone fill me up is this an +EV shove? |
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Posted: Wed, 01 Jul 2009, 7:57pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 04 Jun 2008
Posts: 890
WPP: 66
Location: Norman, OK
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I'm not really the point of c/r the flop here. And check/shoving is less good than just betting.
These hands are played less than optimally. |
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Posted: Wed, 01 Jul 2009, 8:19pm Post subject:
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Straight
Joined: 14 May 2009
Posts: 217
WPP: 65
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Oh, I thought I played them pretty well...? Can I have some feedback? For the most recent hand: I raised 3 BB because there were no limpers before me. On the flop I thought I could get more value from him by check-raising. ANd if he didn't hit, then at least I'd get a c-bet from him. I raised 3x the amount he raised me which was slightly larger than pot. He raised me all in and I called expecting an A-J more than often, maybe a KJ, QJ, or J10 suited in some cases. I never expect him to be ahead or have a six. I got in with the best of it and lost, there isn't much else you can say.
EDIT: on the flop, he had 5 outs (3 aces, 2 Jacks). It was $0.60 for him to call in a pot of $1.27. Thats about 2:1 pot odds. He shoved over for another $1.91 making the pot $3.18. I called getting 3:2 pot odds as a favorite making the final pot $5.69. This seems like a pretty standard +EV hand. Can someone explain why the way I played it is not profitable? |
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Posted: Wed, 01 Jul 2009, 8:36pm Post subject:
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Eats babies
Joined: 28 Feb 2006
Posts: 3866
WPP: 109
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| Your failing to see that yu could have folded a ton of hnds that he was behind with. He had AJ but what if he has AQ, 99 or some other hand he would have bet the turn with that folds to such obvious strength. Keep two things in mind, will worse hands call or will better hands fold? This check raise got lucky and he had exactly one of 2 cards in the deck that called when behind. |
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Posted: Wed, 01 Jul 2009, 8:40pm Post subject:
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Season VIII
Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 2250
WPP: 146
Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
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No-one said it wasn't profitable. Someone simply said it wasn't played optimally. Meaning, yeah sure you may have gotten your money in good, and made money, but you are likely to make more money on average by playing the hand in a different fashion. And that fashion would be cbetting the flop yourself.
Also shoneec, you need to elaborate on what you mean by shove the flop? Do you mean you would open shove the $2.70 into the $0.27c pot on the flop? Or do you mean you would check/shove? Either way the play is likely +EV at 2nl, but not close to the most +EV play possible. |
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Posted: Wed, 01 Jul 2009, 8:53pm Post subject:
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Two Pair
Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 35
WPP: 89
Location: Sarajevo
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| XxStacksxX wrote: |
Also shoneec, you need to elaborate on what you mean by shove the flop? Do you mean you would open shove the $2.70 into the $0.27c pot on the flop? Or do you mean you would check/shove? Either way the play is likely +EV at 2nl, but not close to the most +EV play possible. |
Both are options. I'd go with the check/shove since I'd want him to have J here and think I missed the flop by checking, then shoving to make it look like I have an underpair and making his only option a call. ( Is my line of thinking ok here?) |
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Posted: Thu, 02 Jul 2009, 12:27pm Post subject:
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Straight
Joined: 14 May 2009
Posts: 217
WPP: 65
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ok thanks for the advice guys. I knew the first one was played bad, but now I know the second one was as well.
@XxStacksxX,
will you PLEASE stop rating all my posts 1/5? |
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Posted: Thu, 02 Jul 2009, 1:54pm Post subject:
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Season VIII
Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 2250
WPP: 146
Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
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| shoneec wrote: | | XxStacksxX wrote: |
Also shoneec, you need to elaborate on what you mean by shove the flop? Do you mean you would open shove the $2.70 into the $0.27c pot on the flop? Or do you mean you would check/shove? Either way the play is likely +EV at 2nl, but not close to the most +EV play possible. |
Both are options. I'd go with the check/shove since I'd want him to have J here and think I missed the flop by checking, then shoving to make it look like I have an underpair and making his only option a call. ( Is my line of thinking ok here?) |
Your thinking is kinda flawed here. First, let's look at open shoving the flop. You are risking $2.71 into a pot of $0.27c. In order for this bet to be profitable, you must win 91% of the time (2.71/2.98). Yeah, I know you have KK here, and that the only hand that beats you is 6x, JJ. However, if you open shove the flop here, you aren't too likely to get calls from worse hands. I said it would be +EV at 2nl, because they are still very likely to call with QJ/KJ/TT type hands, so it is probably profitable. But not nearly the most profitable play.
Check/shoving is less bad, but I still think just cbetting is best. If they have Jx, you are still likely to get their money because you can bet flop, turn and river, and they aren't likely to fold top pair. If they have an underpair they aren't likely to fold to a flop and turn cbet most likely, but would likely fold if you check/raise the flop. A check/raise line really only gets extra value from their air hands, but that is assuming they are betting their air hands into a multiway pot.
Either way, if you decide to check/shove the flop, it's not because you are hoping to make your hand look like an underpair. I mean, would you ever do this with an underpair? Would it ever seem like the correct thing to do? If you have a hand like 77, check/shoving this flop is like the worst possible line you could take. When you check here, you might have him bet with his air, but when you shove, I'm not sure his first thought is "ohhh underpair I call". And "IF" that is his thought, then you are also going to get his money by betting each street. |
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Posted: Thu, 02 Jul 2009, 1:55pm Post subject:
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Season VIII
Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 2250
WPP: 146
Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
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| golfguy37 wrote: | ok thanks for the advice guys. I knew the first one was played bad, but now I know the second one was as well.
@XxStacksxX,
will you PLEASE stop rating all my posts 1/5? |
Umm... That's not me. I haven't rated a thread in a long time. So even though I would have likely given this thread a 1/5, someone else vocalized my thoughts and rated it for me I suppose. Thanks whoever it was.
I think I will go vote now though.. Thanks for the reminder. |
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Posted: Thu, 02 Jul 2009, 3:52pm Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 01 Mar 2009
Posts: 471
WPP: 147
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| XxStacksxX wrote: | | golfguy37 wrote: | ok thanks for the advice guys. I knew the first one was played bad, but now I know the second one was as well.
@XxStacksxX,
will you PLEASE stop rating all my posts 1/5? |
Umm... That's not me. I haven't rated a thread in a long time. So even though I would have likely given this thread a 1/5, someone else vocalized my thoughts and rated it for me I suppose. Thanks whoever it was.
I think I will go vote now though.. Thanks for the reminder. |
I just voted. |
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Posted: Thu, 02 Jul 2009, 4:10pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 813
WPP: 69
Location: in my dad's account making him manies
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| Ha! I thought for a second you could tell who rated your posts how highly. |
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Posted: Thu, 02 Jul 2009, 4:13pm Post subject:
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Season VIII
Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 2250
WPP: 146
Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
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| Parasurama wrote: | | Ha! I thought for a second you could tell who rated your posts how highly. |
Your threads would always get a 5 imo.. Your avatar is secksie! |
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Posted: Thu, 02 Jul 2009, 6:31pm Post subject:
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Two Pair
Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 35
WPP: 89
Location: Sarajevo
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| XxStacksxX wrote: | | shoneec wrote: | | XxStacksxX wrote: |
Also shoneec, you need to elaborate on what you mean by shove the flop? Do you mean you would open shove the $2.70 into the $0.27c pot on the flop? Or do you mean you would check/shove? Either way the play is likely +EV at 2nl, but not close to the most +EV play possible. |
Both are options. I'd go with the check/shove since I'd want him to have J here and think I missed the flop by checking, then shoving to make it look like I have an underpair and making his only option a call. ( Is my line of thinking ok here?) |
Your thinking is kinda flawed here. First, let's look at open shoving the flop. You are risking $2.71 into a pot of $0.27c. In order for this bet to be profitable, you must win 91% of the time (2.71/2.98). Yeah, I know you have KK here, and that the only hand that beats you is 6x, JJ. However, if you open shove the flop here, you aren't too likely to get calls from worse hands. I said it would be +EV at 2nl, because they are still very likely to call with QJ/KJ/TT type hands, so it is probably profitable. But not nearly the most profitable play.
Check/shoving is less bad, but I still think just cbetting is best. If they have Jx, you are still likely to get their money because you can bet flop, turn and river, and they aren't likely to fold top pair. If they have an underpair they aren't likely to fold to a flop and turn cbet most likely, but would likely fold if you check/raise the flop. A check/raise line really only gets extra value from their air hands, but that is assuming they are betting their air hands into a multiway pot.
Either way, if you decide to check/shove the flop, it's not because you are hoping to make your hand look like an underpair. I mean, would you ever do this with an underpair? Would it ever seem like the correct thing to do? If you have a hand like 77, check/shoving this flop is like the worst possible line you could take. When you check here, you might have him bet with his air, but when you shove, I'm not sure his first thought is "ohhh underpair I call". And "IF" that is his thought, then you are also going to get his money by betting each street. |
We had a discussion on a hand of mine where i open shoved a K22 flop with 88 and got called by a TT. Your point in that hand was that my shove in the situation actually represented a weaker hand and that I would almost always get called by playing underpairs on an overcard flop like that. I wanted to represent a K by shoving, but you made it clear to me that I only made him call my shove and take the pot.
So I consumed your post as a food for thought and came out with the above post.
We want him to think we're weaker. We want him to think we have an underpair. We want him to think we have J with underkicker. We want our shove to look like a desperate move.
And, if you cbet each street, what are we doing on the river when this J pops out? Are we c/folding or bet/fold or bet/shove? If we bet and get raised are we really putting him on a J or QQ? |
Last edited by shoneec on Thu, 02 Jul 2009, 8:12pm; edited 2 times in total
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Posted: Thu, 02 Jul 2009, 6:47pm Post subject:
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Straight
Joined: 14 May 2009
Posts: 217
WPP: 65
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| Why is this a 1 star post? It's a fucking TILT thread. OMG you guys are fucking pissing me off!!!! |
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Posted: Thu, 02 Jul 2009, 7:05pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 955
WPP: 47
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| ME TOO!!! THIS SHIT IS MAKING ME RAGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE RAWRRRRR |
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Posted: Sat, 04 Jul 2009, 10:02am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 1599
WPP: 61
Location: Cheshire, UK
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| golfguy37 wrote: | | Why is this a 1 star post? It's a fucking TILT thread. OMG you guys are fucking pissing me off!!!! |
lawlz |
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Posted: Sat, 04 Jul 2009, 10:47am Post subject:
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Two Pair
Joined: 05 Jun 2009
Posts: 37
WPP: 50
Location: Pokerstars
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Posted: Sat, 04 Jul 2009, 12:03pm Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 01 Mar 2009
Posts: 471
WPP: 147
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| golfguy37 wrote: | | Why is this a 1 star post? It's a fucking TILT thread. OMG you guys are fucking pissing me off!!!! |
IDIFTL |
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Posted: Tue, 21 Jul 2009, 5:21pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 1599
WPP: 61
Location: Cheshire, UK
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not thread worthy so I'll post here!
[x] PokerStars BS!!!!!!!!!
$0.25/$0.5 No Limit Holdem
9 players
Converted at weaktight.com
Stacks:
UTG ($50.00)
UTG+1 ($9.75)
Hero (MP1) ($50.00)
MP2 ($50.00)
MP3 ($39.10)
CO ($23.10)
BTN ($19.00)
SB ($49.15)
BB ($89.90)
Pre-flop: ($0.75, 9 players) Hero is MP1  
2 folds, Hero raises to $1.50, MP2 calls $1.50, 1 fold, CO calls $1.50, 2 folds, BB calls $1
Flop:    ($6.25, 4 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, MP2 checks, CO checks
Turn:  ($6.25, 4 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, MP2 checks, CO checks
River:  ($6.25, 4 players)
BB bets $3, Hero raises to $9.50, 1 fold, CO raises to $16, BB calls $13, Hero goes all-in $48.50, CO goes all-in $5.60, BB calls $32.50
Final Pot: $124.85
BB shows:  
Hero shows:
CO shows:  
Hero wins $53.80 ( won +$3.80 )
CO wins $68.05 ( won +$44.95 )
BB lost -$50
MP2 lost -$1.50 |
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Posted: Tue, 21 Jul 2009, 5:50pm Post subject:
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Straight
Joined: 14 May 2009
Posts: 217
WPP: 65
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| I feel especially bad for BB, he wouldn't have even stayed in if anyone bet the flop, turn, or river. |
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Posted: Tue, 21 Jul 2009, 7:14pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 3480
WPP: 102
Location: The Grind
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| I rated this thread 1 spade, like all other threads of people whining about beats and coolers. |
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Full Tilt Poker FTOPS XIV - Event 11 $200+$16 PLO/8
