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Robb
Post Posted: Fri, 03 Jul 2009, 7:34pm    Post subject: Poker Investments Reply with quote
4-of-a-Kind
4-of-a-Kind

Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 2572
WPP: 145
Location: GA
Poker is an investment opportunity. That's how I think of it. We choose what tables to sit at, finding sweet investment portfolios - we want a balanced portfolio of feesh with some stations, some weak-tight nits and some laggy donks. Choosing which hands to open is like picking hot stocks. We buy cheap, hoping to sell our hands high and ditch the doggy ones without losing too much. We invest in position, putting more investment capital at risk when we can leverage a buyout.


Some basic investment choices.

Invest in FTR

With zero down and big time long term value, this is one investment sure to pay off. FTR rules the poker universe. Seriously, I've checked out other sites and forums, but this is the one place where noobies can consistently get high quality advice on HH's, leaks, Bankroll Management and other needful poker things. You can go from being a losing poker player to being a winning one up to 25nl or higher just using FTR to help you. If you're here and still losing, get to work. These guys will make you better.

Invest in learning to estimate ranges accurately

This is so vital I can't stress it enough. When you get better at putting people on ranges, you'll win more. Sure, SPR, position, hand strength, flop texture - it's all important. But it's almost useless without being able to - with some degree of certainty - guess what your opponents are holding. Practice it away from the tables. Practice it at the tables. Spend time writing out ranges explicitly and sharing your thoughts on FTR. Get advice and critiques. Whatever you have to do, do it. Whatever it takes, get better every week at estimating ranges and you'll profit bigt ime.

Invest in the bet/fold

If you haven't read ISF's bet/fold and range manipulation articles, you should. The turn is a big money street, and learning to find investments where a bet/fold is +EV will make you tons better postflop. Often, a 1/2 psb on the turn is perfect to maximize fold equity while still leaving room to ditch to the monsters that will shove over. Proficiency at estimating ranges helps leverage maximum dividends from your bet/fold investment.

Bet/fold works on the flop, too, and when you're good at it you can pull off amazing river bet/folds. You can raise/fold, too, but start out with a simplified bet/fold portfolio before you go after the derivatives and margin calls.

Invest in position

Some hands are dogs when we play them oop. Those same hands can be huge winners when we can leverage position. If you want to "open up," go crazy on the button with open-raises, light 3bets and some flat calls. Go semi-crazy in the CO, too. But keep your EP/MP ranges TAGG tight until you gain experience. Investing is position is one of the most straightforward and profitable investments we poker players can make.

Take each flop decision as an investment

After the flop, we have more than 70% of the cards we'll get and some good information about what our opponents might have. We're looking for boards, stack sizes, and villain reads that signal a bull market. When it's a bear market, don't try too hard to earn a buck. There's nothing wrong with checking/folding flops that have no potential to pay off or that have big potential to lose.

I used to get way too worried about winning each HAND. Now I realize I'm going to see hundreds of flops each week, and some of them are junk bonds. The key is to see the right flops by making savvy preflop investments and to profit by picking the right places to invest more.

Watch out for reverse implied odds. Watch out for spots where we're only likely to win small pots and lose big ones. Make the most of your flop investments - they're the key to a sound investment strategy.


Some advanced poker investment opportunities you may not have thought about

Invest in the good life by spending a small part of your poker winnings

You only have to read 3 consecutive posts by Slevin to realize that current bankroll ain't winnings. In fact, bankroll isn't really "won" until you spend it. I used to worry about moving up ASAP, and hoarded my roll. Now, I postpone moving up in favor of frequent albeit small withdrawals. There is nothing that will add to your confidence more than spending money you won at the tables. Withdrawing more than you invested in poker is a great feeling, too. Playing on "house money" is nirvana (and makes the wife happy).

I would advise noobies starting at the 25nl level to withdraw a bit as you stabilize your game at each new level. Make sure you're winning, learning and headed for the next level, then withdraw 4 - 5 BI's. Spend it on a few pitchers at the pub with friends, buy some neat toy for your kids, take your wife/girlfriend/sigo out for a burger and movie. Whatever, spend it on something that you'll enjoy, and make sure everyone knows you bought it with poker bucks.

Invest in confidence

Playing with confidence is by far the biggest difference between my A game and my C game. When I'm confident, I take my reads, put 'em on a range, and act. Win or lose, it's just poker. When I'm playing poorly, I'm second-guessing every read, action and loss. When I'm playing well, the confidence carries me through rough patches like losing $1k this past March. We often step back and reevaluate, plug leaks, work on our game. But staying confident pays big dividends.

How do you invest in confidence? You spend time posting HH's on FTR to find leaks and plug them. You talk with others about poker, hang out in the IRC. You look at year-to-date and month-to-date stats instead of session stats. You plan long term and remember all the hundreds of winning sessions where you beat the game big. My operation thread is an investment in confidence, sharing HH's and thoughts and strategy discussions with a dozen or so regs whose thoughts about poker really help improve my own. And reading my old posts there shows me how far I've progressed in understanding the game.

Invest in learning how to solve your own poker problems

One complaint some noobies have in the BC is that regs won't say "do this now." They ask the noobies for their reads, for estimates of opponents' ranges and for likely reactions from opponents to certain lines based on those reads/ranges. Some noobies post stats and think the FTR regs ought to point out leaks. While many FTR regs can and do, you'll notice something if you stick around a while. Guys who win a lot don't spend much time asking the FTR folks about their leaks. They work on their game, come up with a solution, and THEN ask others what they think. They win now because they worked hard to learn how to learn poker on their own, to think for themselves.

Invest in life balance

The less you tilt in life, the less you'll tilt at the tables. Get a girlfriend/wife. Spend time with family, your kids. And spend your poker profits on them. When poker is a positive aspect of a full and happy life, you'll play better. A good sex life, a job you're content with, several activities you enjoy with a group of good friends - it all helps you live better and play poker better. Get a hobby other than pron or poker. Travel. Read. Take in shows. Sometimes, playing less poker and just enjoying the hell out of life is +EV.

Invest in great charities out of your winnings

I was walking around campus the other day with poker winnings in my pocket, thinking about what I'd buy for me. A student of mine invited me to a St. Baldrick's fundraiser where folks shave their heads to raise money for a kids cancer foundation. I couldn't go, but I pulled out $50 worth of poker bucks and give it to the charity. It's amazing to know that your success as a poker player benefits others, those close to you and those high quality charities you choose to support. Some of my poker winnings have gone to support a shelter for abused kids and orphanage in Cambodia. I donate a fixed percentage of my poker monies to charity, and it's a great feeling.

Invest in thinking correctly about your losses

Poker is all about variance. Sure, it sucks. But don't just write off your losses as "cold streaks" or negative variance. A lot of the 5 ptBB/100 win rate stretches over 10k hands were heaters where I should have earned double that based on the cards I was dealt. Just because I was winning didn't mean I was good. And when I blamed losses at 10nl and 25nl on negative variance, I was kidding myself. I was repeatedly in money-winning situations and spewed chips. When I began looking at the HH's of my sessions, I realized that every losing session had multiple hands where I botched the reads or my actions, or both. Variance works both ways, if we let it, making us think we're great just because we're winning, making us think we suck just because we're losing. The truth is probably part way between. When I'm losing, I try to own all my spew-tard actions. I try to sort out where my play went all wrong, and see what I could have done better. I don't work nearly as hard when I'm winning as I do when I'm losing. I invest my time trying to improve mostly when I'm having a break-even stretch or a downswing.

_________

Every decision you make about poker involves an investment of time, money, emotion and/or mental energy. Just make sure yours pay off more often than not, and you'll be pwning in no time.
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settecba
Post Posted: Fri, 03 Jul 2009, 8:02pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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GREAT POST ROBB.
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RoyalProdigy
Post Posted: Fri, 03 Jul 2009, 8:19pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Joined: 14 Jan 2009
Posts: 178
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Location: Massachusetts
very nice post, lots to think about!!!
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JoeHaw
Post Posted: Fri, 03 Jul 2009, 10:59pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Joined: 01 Mar 2009
Posts: 142
WPP: 115
Location: IL
Great post. I've been reading your operation thread and I wanted to let you know that it's really fantastic and accessible. I appreciate all the writing you do here.
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nish81
Post Posted: Sat, 04 Jul 2009, 12:13pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Joined: 11 Jun 2009
Posts: 277
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When talking about ISF's bet/fold article, do they mean the 'Manipulation 202 and Questions' article in this page? http://poker-strategy.flopturnriver.com/ISF-Poker-Strategy-Articles.php

edit: basically, that b/f > c/c because it makes our opponents play their ranges more transparently?
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Sir Pawnalot
Post Posted: Sat, 04 Jul 2009, 5:43pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Full House
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Joined: 14 Jan 2009
Posts: 659
WPP: 86
Location: Norway
OBS! This is not Sir P. He was just a creation.

Your soul and consciousness is expanding and I can feel it across the Atlantic, all the way to Norway.

Playing poker quite a lot for a little more than a year (10 hours a week) has made me realize the importance of maintaining healthy relationships and enjoy life and all its obstacles.

After having chronical tendonitis for years all over my legs I had to quit an aspiring soccer carreer at the age of 16, and after trying out athletics for some years my joints was nearly ruined. 3 years of active physioterapy made me healthy again. I started bodybuilding and worked my ass of for 7 months/2hours a day. I gained 40 pounds of muscle, just to get chronically ill again. A stomach disease stopped me from eating and I lost more than 50 pounds of weight the following 6 months. After a year of this disease, I slowly build my physicue back and started running track again. After 4 training sessions I tore my achilles apart and could not walk for 6 months. Now I am yet again busy getting back in shape.

Through all of lifes obstacles I feel that the Universe is guiding me on a better path. I am now 100 % ready to finish my studies as Lecturer in Philosophy, History and Religion, and spread knowledge, enthusiasm and love to the next generation in order to help humanity trancend sorrow, fear and ignorance.

Investing in poker was very troublesome for me. I knew in my heart that playing online poker was not the most effective way for me to spread Universal love, but hearing that you intend to use winnings on charity made me feel good.

Having a balanced life, and to make poker fit into that healthy schedule is no easy task. You seem to have struck a lovely harmony between poker and life and I salut you for that. I am too obsessive about all my endevours and find that when I am into something- like poker, I spend all my waking/dreaming time thinking about previous hands and perfecting my strategies versus players I have met. I have probably spent around 3 or 4 times as much time on thinking about poker than actually playing it.

Since I cannot seem to fit poker into my life without compromising my experience of life, I have decided to quit poker. This is not a sad moment, because I have had a lot of fun in trying to perfect my game, but at the same time robbing lessser humans for their money is not something that gives me joy.

May your investments pay off in terms of healthy relationships, abundance, joy and happiness.

Happy 4th of July!
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Robb
Post Posted: Sat, 04 Jul 2009, 11:14pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
4-of-a-Kind
4-of-a-Kind

Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 2572
WPP: 145
Location: GA
Sir Pawnalot wrote:
Since I cannot seem to fit poker into my life without compromising my experience of life, I have decided to quit poker. This is not a sad moment, because I have had a lot of fun in trying to perfect my game, but at the same time robbing lessser humans for their money is not something that gives me joy.

May your investments pay off in terms of healthy relationships, abundance, joy and happiness.

Happy 4th of July!

Wow. Don't know quite what to say, except gl w/ life. Thanks for the well wishes - just had a great 4th with a slip n slide, a nice family picnick and then fireworks. And, oh yeah, I'm down 3 BI today playin' poker, but who cares? It was a fun day.
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Airles™
Post Posted: Sat, 04 Jul 2009, 11:38pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 317
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Robb wrote:
Sir Pawnalot wrote:
Since I cannot seem to fit poker into my life without compromising my experience of life, I have decided to quit poker. This is not a sad moment, because I have had a lot of fun in trying to perfect my game, but at the same time robbing lessser humans for their money is not something that gives me joy.

May your investments pay off in terms of healthy relationships, abundance, joy and happiness.

Happy 4th of July!

Wow. Don't know quite what to say, except gl w/ life. Thanks for the well wishes - just had a great 4th with a slip n slide, a nice family picnick and then fireworks. And, oh yeah, I'm down 3 BI today playin' poker, but who cares? It was a fun day.


Quit lying to yourself and us. You'll be back. Cool
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ryokan
Post Posted: Sun, 05 Jul 2009, 5:42am    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Joined: 23 Nov 2008
Posts: 113
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Sir Pawnalot wrote:
...but at the same time robbing lessser humans for their money is not something that gives me joy.

I dont get why someone is a lesser human just because they lose at poker? Maybe you didnt mean it like that.

Since this is an thread on investing, how about adding: invest in respect for your fellow players? This is investing in the wellbeing of poker. I was going to expand and rant a bit, but everyones smart enough here to know what im getting at.
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mrhappy333
Post Posted: Sun, 05 Jul 2009, 8:42am    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Joined: 07 Jan 2006
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Location: Hartford, CT
Robb another great post!
I like the idea of withdrawing a little and making sure everyone knows its with poker bucks!!
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IhaveTopTop
Post Posted: Sun, 05 Jul 2009, 11:16am    Post subject: Reply with quote
3-of-a-Kind
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Joined: 05 Mar 2008
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Very nice post.

I'm going to have to reread it later to think about and digest everything in it.
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BooG690
Post Posted: Sun, 05 Jul 2009, 12:37pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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nish81 wrote:
When talking about ISF's bet/fold article, do they mean the 'Manipulation 202 and Questions' article in this page? http://poker-strategy.flopturnriver.com/ISF-Poker-Strategy-Articles.php

edit: basically, that b/f > c/c because it makes our opponents play their ranges more transparently?


http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/forum/i-ve-found-the-biggest-leak-among-5-1-and-1-2-grinders-t56814.html

This is the b/f article ISF wrote. It is one of my favorites and definitely changed my game for the better. Enjoy!
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nish81
Post Posted: Sun, 05 Jul 2009, 1:12pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Joined: 11 Jun 2009
Posts: 277
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BooG690 wrote:
nish81 wrote:
When talking about ISF's bet/fold article, do they mean the 'Manipulation 202 and Questions' article in this page? http://poker-strategy.flopturnriver.com/ISF-Poker-Strategy-Articles.php

edit: basically, that b/f > c/c because it makes our opponents play their ranges more transparently?


http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/forum/i-ve-found-the-biggest-leak-among-5-1-and-1-2-grinders-t56814.html

This is the b/f article ISF wrote. It is one of my favorites and definitely changed my game for the better. Enjoy!



Thank you so much, even on first read this looks like an amazing find Very Happy
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Robb
Post Posted: Sun, 05 Jul 2009, 3:36pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
4-of-a-Kind
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Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 2572
WPP: 145
Location: GA
nish81 wrote:
BooG690 wrote:
nish81 wrote:
When talking about ISF's bet/fold article, do they mean the 'Manipulation 202 and Questions' article in this page? http://poker-strategy.flopturnriver.com/ISF-Poker-Strategy-Articles.php

edit: basically, that b/f > c/c because it makes our opponents play their ranges more transparently?


http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/forum/i-ve-found-the-biggest-leak-among-5-1-and-1-2-grinders-t56814.html

This is the b/f article ISF wrote. It is one of my favorites and definitely changed my game for the better. Enjoy!



Thank you so much, even on first read this looks like an amazing find Very Happy

Thanks boog for the bet/fold link. Yes, ISF wrote TWO range manipulation articles in his strategy section which nish81 found above:

http://poker-strategy.flopturnriver.com/ISF-Poker-Strategy-Articles.php

The first is called "Strategic Bet Sizing" and the second is Manipulation 202.

It's pretty deep at first, and when I read them as a beginner I didn't get tons out of them. But when you really start to get the hang of things at the micros, you'll begin to see that lots of the time we can use just the right bet-size and split our opponents' ranges into bet/call/fold pieces that are really well defined. When we manage this, we play correctly about all the time because we've forced him to play "cards face up."
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AFchung
Post Posted: Sun, 05 Jul 2009, 6:38pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Full House
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Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 1102
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Location: UCLA
Robb wrote:
nish81 wrote:
BooG690 wrote:
nish81 wrote:
When talking about ISF's bet/fold article, do they mean the 'Manipulation 202 and Questions' article in this page? http://poker-strategy.flopturnriver.com/ISF-Poker-Strategy-Articles.php

edit: basically, that b/f > c/c because it makes our opponents play their ranges more transparently?


http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/forum/i-ve-found-the-biggest-leak-among-5-1-and-1-2-grinders-t56814.html

This is the b/f article ISF wrote. It is one of my favorites and definitely changed my game for the better. Enjoy!



Thank you so much, even on first read this looks like an amazing find Very Happy

Thanks boog for the bet/fold link. Yes, ISF wrote TWO range manipulation articles in his strategy section which nish81 found above:

http://poker-strategy.flopturnriver.com/ISF-Poker-Strategy-Articles.php

The first is called "Strategic Bet Sizing" and the second is Manipulation 202.

It's pretty deep at first, and when I read them as a beginner I didn't get tons out of them. But when you really start to get the hang of things at the micros, you'll begin to see that lots of the time we can use just the right bet-size and split our opponents' ranges into bet/call/fold pieces that are really well defined. When we manage this, we play correctly about all the time because we've forced him to play "cards face up."


havent read those links in a while. time for a re-read. great post robb!
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