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Posted: Mon, 31 Mar 2008, 1:47am Post subject: poker being legalized again?
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 1594
WPP: 117
Location: getting my swell on
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| i read on the homepage of ftr that they will be reviewing the uigea april 2nd. the question is, is this necessarily a good thing? because then the gov could start enforcing taxes on players (i dont report my winnings). the thing is, would the extra money we could make by playing on weaker sites be greater than the amount we would be taxed? |
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Posted: Mon, 31 Mar 2008, 8:34am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 3603
WPP: 99
Location: Your place or my place
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Posted: Mon, 31 Mar 2008, 10:19am Post subject:
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Straight
Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 173
WPP: 84
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| euphoricism wrote: | | Pay your taxes, dumbass. |
Don't mess with the IRS |
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Posted: Mon, 31 Mar 2008, 11:09am Post subject:
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Radmin
Joined: 04 Dec 2003
Posts: 5241
WPP: 91
Location: facebook.com/xianti
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| If you're a US resident, you're asking for trouble if your gaming winnings are substantial and you don't pay taxes on it. Online poker being legal doesn't change how much trouble you could get into. |
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Posted: Mon, 31 Mar 2008, 11:24am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 2328
WPP: 97
Location: Viva la Puteria! / Nar Shaddaa Red Sector obv.
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Do Full Tilt Poker and PokerStars Really Want Legalized and Regulated Online Poker in the United States?
| Quote: | Do PokerStars and Full Tilt Poker really want legalized online poker in the United States, or would they be happier if the status quo were to be maintained?
At first glance, this seems like a ridiculous question. Why wouldn't they want legal and regulated online poker in the United States? There would be no problem funding an account, and they could advertise wherever they wanted to. All of a sudden, companies like PokerStars would be able to advertise on Google, Yahoo or on the side of a bus if they wanted to (their *.com sites, not their *.net). They could sponsor the World Series of Poker; they could buy their players directly into the World Series of Poker once again, and they could sponsor a sports stadium if they really wanted to. At first glance, it would seem as though PokerStars and Full Tilt would enjoy a tidal wave of new players and marketing opportunities if a bill to legalize and regulate online poker was finally pushed through in the United States.
However, I think that this would be a short-term positive and long-term negative for both companies.
First off, PokerStars and Full Tilt Poker are both in great positions right now.
They are the two largest rooms that still accept American players. Because of this, both rooms have grown quite substantially since the passing of the UIGEA into law. Americans are still able to quite easily get money on and off the sites. Business has gotten better for both companies since the UIGEA was passed. The UIGEA basically acts as a shield, preventing new companies from targeting American players while Full Tilt and PokerStars continue to grow. If you ask me, Full Tilt and PokerStars would both be quite happy if the current circumstances remained the same. They will attract the American players because they are pretty much the only two places to play if you are from the US and want a game, and they can spend their marketing dollars on Russia, Asia and Europe. Both companies are in a great position right now.
If online poker were to be legalized and regulated in the United States, all of this would start to change.
First off, their old competition would enter the fray for US players. Party Poker used to be the biggest online poker room in the world before pulling out of the US. I am sure that Party Poker could re-activate all of their dormant American accounts overnight if they wanted to. Who wouldn't want to play at Party Poker again? Their software wasn't that good, but they had by far the fishiest games. I know many people that would be licking their chops to get back onto Party Poker. So suddenly you would have some of the old competition such as Party Poker, Paradise Poker and others entering the fray.
Then you would have Vegas entering the American market eventually as well. If Las Vegas casinos decided to really take online poker seriously, they could really do some damage to the player base of sites such as PokerStars or Full Tilt Poker. There are plenty of cool promotions that a Vegas casino could do with their own online poker site. If Vegas really decided to try and make their mark in the online poker market, they could do some serious damage. There are millions of gamblers walking through the doors of their casinos every year that could be marketed to.
Next you would have likely competition from companies such as Yahoo. Yahoo already has a real money poker site in place. If they opened their doors to American players and marketed the room properly, their poker room could grow very quickly. The fish would flood the site, and the sharks would follow. Yahoo would be able to attract a great number of the casual beginners to their poker room. This would obviously be a problem for PokerStars and Full Tilt as well.
Online poker is an extremely profitable business with high profit margins. I can think of a great number of companies that would love to penetrate this market if online poker were to be regulated in the United States. Companies with tremendous amounts of resources and loyal users.
And as if all of the added competition weren't enough for Full Tilt and PokerStars - who's to say that they would be able to obtain a license to operate in the United States if online poker were to be regulated? Some in Washington might not look too kindly upon Full Tilt and PokerStars for operating "illegally" all of these years. They may decide to deny the applications for FTP and PokerStars, and instead reward the companies that voluntarily pulled out of the US market after the passing of the UIGEA. Any eventual legalization and regulation will require companies to be licensed to operate in the United States. I could see Las Vegas casinos, Yahoo and even Party Poker being granted licenses to operate - FTP and PokerStars? Maybe not.
I really think that FTP and PokerStars would prefer if things remained as they are right now. What do you think?
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Source:
http://www.pokerkingblog.com/2008/02/26/do-full-tilt-poker-and-pokerstars-really-want-legalized-and-regulated-online-poker-in-the-united-states/
@will641: move to a taxhaven |
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Posted: Mon, 31 Mar 2008, 7:09pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 3545
WPP: 106
Location: Collecting $eV
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Interesting thought, but I think the influx of money players >>> whatever they may or may not lose.
Poker was never "legal" so the user base would be much larger than it was pre uigea. |
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Posted: Thu, 10 Apr 2008, 1:51pm Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 29 Mar 2007
Posts: 586
WPP: 56
Location: In S-mart Swallowing Your Soul!
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| Xianti wrote: | | If you're a US resident, you're asking for trouble if your gaming winnings are substantial and you don't pay taxes on it. Online poker being legal doesn't change how much trouble you could get into. |
Define substantial. |
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Posted: Thu, 10 Apr 2008, 2:08pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 3603
WPP: 99
Location: Your place or my place
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| Thats not up to us, python. You owe taxes on every cent you ever earn. |
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Posted: Thu, 10 Apr 2008, 3:45pm Post subject:
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3-of-a-Kind
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 92
WPP: 135
Location: UB SNG
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I'm not a tax lawyer but I'd say "substantial" starts pretty low. I don't make my living playing, but I make avg$400/month. Not a lot, but i report it as income. Turbo tax made it very simple.
07 was the first year I had to worry about "winnings" 
Hopefully I'll have more of a problem with this as time goes on. |
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Posted: Thu, 10 Apr 2008, 3:57pm Post subject:
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Straight
Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 211
WPP: 106
Location: Minnesota, USA
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I assume if it's online you don't have to pay unless you withdraw? I'm building my roll and have made a fair amount of $$ in the past year or so, but have left it there so far. I'd think you don't have to report it unless it's realized earnings.
Do sites like PS or FT report your individual earnings to the IRS? Also, how would you document online gambling losses if you had a bad year? |
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Posted: Mon, 14 Apr 2008, 2:45pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 25 Mar 2004
Posts: 831
WPP: 82
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| deacon_bluez wrote: | I assume if it's online you don't have to pay unless you withdraw? I'm building my roll and have made a fair amount of $$ in the past year or so, but have left it there so far. I'd think you don't have to report it unless it's realized earnings.
Do sites like PS or FT report your individual earnings to the IRS? Also, how would you document online gambling losses if you had a bad year? |
Incorrect.
You have to pay taxes on your winnings regardless of whether your money is sitting at the poker site, an ewallet, in your bank or in your wallet. I'm sure many don't but that's fairly clear-cut.
PS/FT don't report earnings but I still wouldn't avoid taxes. You report winnings as other other income and deduct losses on Schedule A(up to the amount of your winnings). If you have a losing year(for example winning sessions = 5K, losing sessions = 9K for net of -4K) you would report 5K of income and 5K of losses. Depending on your AGI this can actually cause you to owe more taxes even if you lost money(which obviously sucks). Also you cannot simply net your wins/losses and declare that amount as income...you have to list your winning sessions and losing sessions separately. Why they can't change this is beyond me.
FWIW there's gotta be a huge % that don't declare income from gambling when counting live casinos, racetracks, lotteries, bingo, etc.
***The above assumes you don't file as a professional gambler |
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Posted: Mon, 14 Apr 2008, 2:56pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 3603
WPP: 99
Location: Your place or my place
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| Aces wrote: | | deacon_bluez wrote: | I assume if it's online you don't have to pay unless you withdraw? I'm building my roll and have made a fair amount of $$ in the past year or so, but have left it there so far. I'd think you don't have to report it unless it's realized earnings.
Do sites like PS or FT report your individual earnings to the IRS? Also, how would you document online gambling losses if you had a bad year? |
Incorrect.
You have to pay taxes on your winnings regardless of whether your money is sitting at the poker site, an ewallet, in your bank or in your wallet. I'm sure many don't but that's fairly clear-cut.
PS/FT don't report earnings but I still wouldn't avoid taxes. You report winnings as other other income and deduct losses on Schedule A(up to the amount of your winnings). If you have a losing year(for example winning sessions = 5K, losing sessions = 9K for net of -4K) you would report 5K of income and 5K of losses. Depending on your AGI this can actually cause you to owe more taxes even if you lost money(which obviously sucks). Also you cannot simply net your wins/losses and declare that amount as income...you have to list your winning sessions and losing sessions separately. Why they can't change this is beyond me.
FWIW there's gotta be a huge % that don't declare income from gambling when counting live casinos, racetracks, lotteries, bingo, etc.
***The above assumes you don't file as a professional gambler |
"
FWIW there's gotta be a huge % that don't declare income from gambling when counting live casinos, racetracks, lotteries, bingo, etc. "
The benefits of dealing in cash... |
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Posted: Wed, 30 Apr 2008, 3:52pm Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 29 Mar 2007
Posts: 586
WPP: 56
Location: In S-mart Swallowing Your Soul!
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| Here's a good question for you all. How come we have to pay federal taxes on money we earn off US soil? |
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Posted: Wed, 30 Apr 2008, 4:01pm Post subject:
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Royal Flush
Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 18768
WPP: 81
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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| Pythonic wrote: | | Define substantial. |
Two ways of looking at this.
First, if poker income is chaning your lifestyle then it may set off red flags and draw an audit.
Second, there are numbers where it goes from being a small fine to considerably larger fines and/or jail time. Would have to look up the laws to find those numbers again.
...or just report your winnings, pay taxes to the best of your ability and at worst you'll get hit for a small fine + taxes owed. |
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Posted: Wed, 07 May 2008, 12:24pm Post subject:
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Straight
Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 211
WPP: 106
Location: Minnesota, USA
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| Pythonic wrote: | | Here's a good question for you all. How come we have to pay federal taxes on money we earn off US soil? |
Because the IRS is greedy. They collect taxes because they can. |
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Posted: Wed, 30 Jul 2008, 5:11pm Post subject:
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High Card
Joined: 05 Jun 2008
Posts: 1
WPP: 136
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i would suggest you pay taxes on it if you win
a large amount of cash, cause sooner or later uncle
sam will find you and by then you could be broke then be in major
trouble and no way to bail yourself out. |
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Posted: Wed, 30 Jul 2008, 6:27pm Post subject:
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Straight Flush
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 4209
WPP: 150
Location: St. Louis, MO
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Py, they can collect because you live ON U.S. soil, and are a resident.
will, telling the internet, and all its viewership, that you dont pay taxes is really kind of dumb, arrogant, and naive. its like screaming it from the top of a building...thinking no one will overhear you. |
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