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Poker Forum
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Posted: Mon, 07 Jul 2008, 8:08am Post subject: OPERATION: MONIES |
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4-of-a-Kind

Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 3030 WPP: 87
Location: Dublin
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Subop: $10K by 31 Dec 2008
SubSubOp: $1k each month
SubSubSubOp: My thoughts and theories
SubSubSubSubOp: Post medium pot hands
Lets crack off with a suckout:
opp's were both massive fish like 50+/5 or so
$0.5/$1 No Limit Holdem
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com
Stacks:
UTG fishz23 ($147.41)
UTG+1 JstPayMyRent ($94.65)
CO fardel386 ($35.29)
BTN Hero ($100.00)
SB belzimilien ($151.11)
BB digsy68 ($102.76)
Pre-flop: ($1.50, 6 players) Hero is BTN
fishz23 calls $1, 2 folds, Hero raises to $5, 1 fold, digsy68 calls $4, fishz23 calls $4
Flop: ($15.50, 3 players)
digsy68 checks, fishz23 checks, Hero bets $11, digsy68 calls $11, fishz23 raises to $26, Hero goes all-in $84, digsy68 calls $84, fishz23 goes all-in $116.41, digsy68 goes all-in $2.76
Turn: ($350.67, 3 players)
River: ($350.67, 3 players)
Final Pot: $350.67
fishz23 shows:
digsy68 shows:
Hero shows:
fishz23 wins $50.17 ( lost -$97.24 )
Hero wins $297 ( won +$197 )
digsy68 lost -$102.76 |
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Posted: Tue, 08 Jul 2008, 12:52am Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind

Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 3030 WPP: 87
Location: Dublin
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Well I dropped $81 last night. Reason I didnt break evem was bcoz I spewed a buyin with AK. AK seems to be my favourite spew hand, I think a good idea after I have a losing & spewing session is to do hand analysis f some hands from that session. So thats what Ill try to do today, Ive a bunch of hands here to get through.
Ok to start with the spew.
hand 1 - Opp was a v poor player running about 40/6 over small but decent sample.
$0.5/$1 No Limit Holdem
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com
Stacks:
UTG Hero ($100.00)
UTG+1 lighningIII ($142.04)
CO du8m0nk3y ($155.81)
BTN manbearpig2k ($100.00)
SB suleyka ($57.00)
BB noplaynogame ($109.21)
Pre-flop: ($1.50, 6 players) Hero is UTG
Hero raises to $4, 1 fold, du8m0nk3y calls $4, 3 folds
Flop: ($9.50, 2 players)
Hero bets $7, du8m0nk3y calls $7
imo this is completely standard. He should drop all his broadways and i dont mind taking down the flop now. I expect him to call with almost all his PP hands 22-JJ. I assume he easily 3 bets QQ+. So he calls!!
Turn: ($23.50, 2 players)
Hero bets $16, du8m0nk3y calls $16
Turn card is a safe card imo overall and gives me a NFD and my overs are good. I think this is where I may of made a mistake vs this type of player, i think i could of c/c turn instead of b/f turn. Im defo behind now on turn imo since i assume he dropped his non pair hands plus theres no flop draws really. Also I think my b/f bet sizing is poor, if you notice I actually overbbet shoved turn whihc could of been avoided had i bet more on turn like $20-$22. This sets up any bluff river nicely by shoving since it doesnt look like a fishy overbet.
River: ($55.50, 2 players)
Hero goes all-in $73, du8m0nk3y calls $73
River isnt a great card but I felt he was holding a hand like 55,66,7x,88,99,TT. I figured I could get some to fold by overbet shoving. Im not a fan of my overbet since i think if i just pot it for $55 has the v same effect and saves me $18 each time.
Also to note that theres probably no hand I wud play this way which really sucks but its not that bad vs bad players.
Opp had TT which is among the very top of his range.
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Posted: Tue, 08 Jul 2008, 1:06am Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind

Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 3030 WPP: 87
Location: Dublin
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Hand 2 - Opp was a weak player and fairly passive. 40/6 type., not same opp as above.
$0.5/$1 No Limit Holdem
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com
Stacks:
UTG Mister__Jack ($124.35)
UTG+1 foxyroxlies ($69.77)
CO pkrRockStar ($102.73)
BTN Hero ($100.00)
SB walshy399 ($86.16)
BB finnaa111 ($194.86)
Pre-flop: ($1.50, 6 players) Hero is BTN
3 folds, Hero raises to $4, 1 fold, finnaa111 calls $3
Flop: ($8.50, 2 players)
finnaa111 checks, Hero bets $6, finnaa111 calls $6
Sometimes I do check behind of these flops. Reason I did bet is bcoz 1) I think my overs are fairly good since opp has wide calling range esp in BB 2) T is an out too 3) Opp is passive so I can check back turn alot 4) Id be happy taking pot down if he has a lower PP. Point 4 isnt that important since I cud take away the pot on a later street.
Turn: ($20.50, 2 players)
finnaa111 checks, Hero checks
Not a great turn card, not scary tho not likely to hit opp in anyway. I chose not to spew barrel AK here .
River: ($20.50, 2 players)
finnaa111 checks, Hero bets $16, finnaa111 raises to $32, $16 to Hero ($74)?
I think river is a totally std value bet here or if opp bet a decent amount then its an easy call. When he check raises I throw up, while it looks liek an easy call getting $16 to win $68.5 ie. 23%. I really think im beat here a ton bcoz if opp has a low PP, Jx,Qx opp is either gonna c/c or c/f. Opp wud bet river with his Kx + stronger hands, maybe Qx if he is capable. So why wud this passive opp go for a c/r??? Is he bluffing??? Hell no he aint, he is raising the minimium and WANTS a call. So he at least has 2pair,sets or straights, theres no way I can profitably call. but i do call
Opp had JJ. gg
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Posted: Tue, 08 Jul 2008, 1:22am Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind

Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 3030 WPP: 87
Location: Dublin
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Hand 3 - Another minraised river god dammit . Different opp who was about 30/5. These opp dont need much reads info since they usually play v straightforwardly.
$0.5/$1 No Limit Holdem
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com
Stacks:
UTG Hero ($107.75)
UTG+1 lighningIII ($72.09)
CO du8m0nk3y ($183.59)
BTN manbearpig2k ($100.00)
SB RotesMoped ($138.95)
BB noplaynogame ($108.38)
Pre-flop: ($1.50, 6 players) Hero is UTG
Hero raises to $4, lighningIII calls $4, 4 folds
imo standard for table quality
Flop: ($9.50, 2 players)
Hero bets $6.50, lighningIII calls $6.50
Dryish board vs passive opp who is unlikely to bluff raise. I bet a slightly smaller than usual bet to may keep a few additional holdings in for a single street. these additional holdings likely have just 2 outs vs us so checking turns are good.
Turn: ($22.50, 2 players)
Hero checks, lighningIII checks
Turn is ok and if figure he is ahead. I opt for some pot control since i dont wanan get raised and i want opp to call my light if it checks thru to river or for him to think his weaker Kx, 9x is best.
River: ($22.50, 2 players)
Hero bets $14, lighningIII raises to $28, $14 to Hero ($83.25)?
J isnt a great card for my hand since i now only beat KT,K8. I do still VB expecting my weakness to be called by Kx and 9x hands. When he raises we shud assume he isnt bluffing raising or VBing weaker hands. I think he will just call with all his marginal Kx,9x type hands which leads us to beleive he raises 2 pair, set or straight for minimium on river. he really isnt likely to raise up the river bcoz 1) he really doesnt have any air in his range 2) While i look weak he still doesnt have air in his range so theres no value is raising crap or Sd type hands. But i do call bcoz im a fish
Opp had KJ. gg
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Posted: Tue, 08 Jul 2008, 1:46am Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind

Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 3030 WPP: 87
Location: Dublin
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Hand 4 - This is a spot where I made a fairly silly error tyring to mix up my play then not knowing wtf to do after that. I actually lead the flop here for about $6-7 and got called. hadnt a clue wot to do on turn.
i didnt 3bet since he was a fairly tight player who stole little so i decided to keep pot small OOP and call. i think he fires flop 100% if checked to therefore making a c/c>>>>>>leads or c/r. There are very little turn scare cards for him to double barrel so if he fires again then i can safely fold.
$0.5/$1 No Limit Holdem
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com
Stacks:
UTG TY4URMONIEZ ($230.10)
UTG+1 tomikk37 ($102.57)
CO galoucura_br ($128.83)
BTN MoroP ($178.13)
SB Hero ($101.50)
BB Schmunzler80 ($124.73)
Pre-flop: ($1.50, 6 players) Hero is SB
3 folds, MoroP raises to $4, Hero calls $3.50, 1 fold
Flop: ($9, 2 players)
Hero ($97.5)? |
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Posted: Tue, 08 Jul 2008, 2:35am Post subject: |
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Full House

Joined: 04 Jul 2006
Posts: 943 WPP: 160
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Hand 1: definitively do not 2nd barril on TURN. He's not folding and not raising, so c/c is much better. As played RIVER should be c/f. With his stats you're not getting him to fold 55 or 66.
Hand 2: Boy, I also hate those min raises on RIVER! I also had one yesterday. However, you are beat here, I should (even if I didn't yesterday either ) find a fold vs this guy.
Hand 3: idem.
Hand 4: Here I c/c FLOP and villain will most likely check TURN behind (if he 2 barrils a high card then I fold, if he fires on a low card then I might fold also) and I'll fire 1/2 bet on RIVER if he likes to bet RIVER IP or checks if he's passive. |
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Posted: Tue, 08 Jul 2008, 4:13am Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind

Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 3030 WPP: 87
Location: Dublin
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| Da GOAT wrote: | hand 1 - Opp was a v poor player running about 40/6 over small but decent sample.
$0.5/$1 No Limit Holdem
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com
Stacks:
UTG Hero ($100.00)
UTG+1 lighningIII ($142.04)
CO du8m0nk3y ($155.81)
BTN manbearpig2k ($100.00)
SB suleyka ($57.00)
BB noplaynogame ($109.21)
Pre-flop: ($1.50, 6 players) Hero is UTG
Hero raises to $4, 1 fold, du8m0nk3y calls $4, 3 folds
Flop: ($9.50, 2 players)
Hero bets $7, du8m0nk3y calls $7
imo this is completely standard. He should drop all his broadways and i dont mind taking down the flop now. I expect him to call with almost all his PP hands 22-JJ. I assume he easily 3 bets QQ+. So he calls!!
Turn: ($23.50, 2 players)
Hero bets $16, du8m0nk3y calls $16
Turn card is a safe card imo overall and gives me a NFD and my overs are good. I think this is where I may of made a mistake vs this type of player, i think i could of c/c turn instead of b/f turn. Im defo behind now on turn imo since i assume he dropped his non pair hands plus theres no flop draws really. Also I think my b/f bet sizing is poor, if you notice I actually overbbet shoved turn whihc could of been avoided had i bet more on turn like $20-$22. This sets up any bluff river nicely by shoving since it doesnt look like a fishy overbet.
River: ($55.50, 2 players)
Hero goes all-in $73, du8m0nk3y calls $73
River isnt a great card but I felt he was holding a hand like 55,66,7x,88,99,TT. I figured I could get some to fold by overbet shoving. Im not a fan of my overbet since i think if i just pot it for $55 has the v same effect and saves me $18 each time.
Also to note that theres probably no hand I wud play this way which really sucks but its not that bad vs bad players.
Opp had TT which is among the very top of his range.
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Just to add comment on this hand. I was talking with spenda about it and im convinced turn is a c/c spot. Also jimmy confirms, thx for the input.
Betting sucks bcoz we are unlikely to fold out any better hands. c/c is good since 1) we do have a ton of outs, any flush card, A & K 2) Opp is passive and will check back alot 3) Opp is passive and may just bet a smallish amount. We discussed that a c/r woudl be a good play if opp had a high AF since he will be betting here alot. |
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Posted: Tue, 08 Jul 2008, 4:15am Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind

Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 3030 WPP: 87
Location: Dublin
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| jimmy44 wrote: |
Hand 2: Boy, I also hate those min raises on RIVER! I also had one yesterday. However, you are beat here, I should (even if I didn't yesterday either ) find a fold vs this guy.
Hand 3: idem. |
Both river raises ARE folds, it just sucks.
btw ''idem''??? meaning. |
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Posted: Tue, 08 Jul 2008, 4:30am Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind

Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 3030 WPP: 87
Location: Dublin
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| Da GOAT wrote: | Hand 4 - This is a spot where I made a fairly silly error tyring to mix up my play then not knowing wtf to do after that. I actually lead the flop here for about $6-7 and got called. hadnt a clue wot to do on turn.
i didnt 3bet since he was a fairly tight player who stole little so i decided to keep pot small OOP and call. i think he fires flop 100% if checked to therefore making a c/c>>>>>>leads or c/r. There are very little turn scare cards for him to double barrel so if he fires again then i can safely fold.
$0.5/$1 No Limit Holdem
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com
Stacks:
UTG TY4URMONIEZ ($230.10)
UTG+1 tomikk37 ($102.57)
CO galoucura_br ($128.83)
BTN MoroP ($178.13)
SB Hero ($101.50)
BB Schmunzler80 ($124.73)
Pre-flop: ($1.50, 6 players) Hero is SB
3 folds, MoroP raises to $4, Hero calls $3.50, 1 fold
Flop: ($9, 2 players)
Hero ($97.5)? |
Also discussed with spenda this hand too.
C/c is the best line vs this opp. then c/f turn, c/f river with some c/c rivers mixed in depending on situation.
But also what if opp wasnt that nitty, if he was say a 20/15 and i had a hand i didnt wanna 3bet like say 66. I call flop is same K53. I woudl be much better to instead c/r flop with my 66. Reason being that if i just c/c, whats my range?? 55,33,KQ,66-88. So if he is half decent he should be aware of my range and fire alot of second barrels therefore it is much more prudent to c/r this flop where he will c/b 100% instead of maybe getting blown off your hand on turn.
Change of topic slightly, dealing with nits UTG.
Say instead of TT we have AK or AA on BTN vs UTG, what should we do?? I think now theres a very good theory that flatting is better, ';flatting AA is like flopping bottom set''. First off opp isnt gonna call us with AJ and AQ so raising AK and AA is a waste. we want 99&TT is stay in also which may fold also to a 3bet. If a flop comes Kxx then we can get at least 2 streets of value form KQ,AQ,AJ or is flop is all low etc. Now if we apply this to my HH above then if we flat AK or AA then we can get alot of value from a nits range since our c/r range seems so FoS since we can only have 33 and 55 since we c/c KQ and 3bet AK pre. |
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Posted: Tue, 08 Jul 2008, 7:42am Post subject: |
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Full House

Joined: 04 Jul 2006
Posts: 943 WPP: 160
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| Da GOAT wrote: | | jimmy44 wrote: |
Hand 2: Boy, I also hate those min raises on RIVER! I also had one yesterday. However, you are beat here, I should (even if I didn't yesterday either ) find a fold vs this guy.
Hand 3: idem. |
Both river raises ARE folds, it just sucks.
btw ''idem''??? meaning. |
I just did a mistake and put a French abreviation for "the same"  |
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Posted: Tue, 08 Jul 2008, 5:30pm Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind

Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 3325 WPP: 148
Location: Ballarat, Australia
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| Regarding the river min-raises, even though we may not have the odds to call (even if they are great odds), do we want opps to know we'll fold to a min-raise on the river without the nuts? |
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Posted: Tue, 08 Jul 2008, 7:30pm Post subject: |
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Full House

Joined: 24 Sep 2004
Posts: 1152 WPP: 131
Location: Nest of Douchebags
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| bjsaust wrote: | | Regarding the river min-raises, even though we may not have the odds to call (even if they are great odds), do we want opps to know we'll fold to a min-raise on the river without the nuts? |
Will most ops even notice this or is this a thinly veiled crying call? |
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Posted: Tue, 08 Jul 2008, 7:38pm Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind

Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 3325 WPP: 148
Location: Ballarat, Australia
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| Once they might not, but a couple times in a session and they'll start picking up. |
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Posted: Wed, 09 Jul 2008, 12:12am Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind

Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 3030 WPP: 87
Location: Dublin
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| bjsaust wrote: | | Regarding the river min-raises, even though we may not have the odds to call (even if they are great odds), do we want opps to know we'll fold to a min-raise on the river without the nuts? |
min c/r almost always tend to not be a bluff (not always the nutz but not a bluff) since it just isnt a good bluff bet size since they would want a fold. There really isnt any meta game aspect since 1) Its a donk player doing it 2) Donk wont really know how to adjust 3) Ppl just arent paying attention anyway 4) Regs wont min c/r bluff rivers anyway like ever 5) Ppl very rarely c/r bluff rivers either.
btw Bigred I dont think its really a crying call. Its a call where you cant resist a gamble knowing your beat. They are easy folds. But I am station. |
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Posted: Wed, 09 Jul 2008, 1:49am Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind

Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 3030 WPP: 87
Location: Dublin
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Hand 5 - Opp was about 40/6. He had been calling me alot preflop OOP in blinds and i was crushing him postflop till he won a 20bb pot as few hands ago. Now he has finally 3bet me preflop.
Advice on my line. Im not sure exactly what his 3bet means but I do have a great hand for the situation and its ez preflo call.
$0.5/$1 No Limit Holdem
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com
Stacks:
UTG Kramer18M ($100.45)
UTG+1 PhIPaA ($117.43)
CO Hero ($114.24)
BTN smigolicious ($100.00)
SB windsu111 ($123.49)
BB U3bet_I_Fold ($103.58)
Pre-flop: ($1.50, 6 players) Hero is CO
2 folds, Hero raises to $4, 1 fold, windsu111 raises to $7, 1 fold, Hero calls $3
Flop: ($15, 2 players)
windsu111 bets $15, Hero calls $15
I think this line is pretty much super standard with almost all my range that should continue in the hand. Opp had bet pot here which seemed to be his standard move. He is passive when not having initiative but seems to bet pot when he can.
Turn: ($45, 2 players)
windsu111 bets $22, Hero calls $22
Now it gets tricky. im not sure exactly of his line now. It seems either vulnerable or a ''i dont want you to fold bet''. I dont turn my hand into a bluff by raising since he wont fold any pairs. In hindsight I think this is a fold since i shouldnt expect him to continue betting with less than TP.
River: ($89, 2 players)
windsu111 checks, Hero checks
I dnt think I could bet river here and not get called light by QQ+ I got my showdown tho it cost me an extra $22. Opp had QQ.gg |
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Posted: Thu, 10 Jul 2008, 12:24am Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind

Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 3030 WPP: 87
Location: Dublin
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opp ran 25/21. we had some hands vs each other. i think he can squeeze pre when i iso a weak player. ive 4bet shoved him UTG too. v aggro oplayer imo who folds 59% to 3bets over about 1K hands. btw this is the first time he has called my 3bet.
On flop is was going for a c/r since I dont put too many draws in his range esp diamonds.
$0.5/$1 No Limit Holdem
5 players
Converted at weaktight.com
Stacks:
UTG DOOMSWiTCHON ($298.46)
CO kms81 ($110.64)
BTN Locustus111 ($76.57)
SB Hero ($108.38)
BB kleber2007 ($106.93)
Pre-flop: ($1.50, 5 players) Hero is SB
DOOMSWiTCHON raises to $3, 1 fold, Locustus111 calls $3, Hero raises to $15, 1 fold, DOOMSWiTCHON calls $12, Locustus111 folds
Flop: ($34, 2 players)
Hero checks, DOOMSWiTCHON checks
Turn: ($34, 2 players)
Hero bets $20, DOOMSWiTCHON calls $20
River: ($74, 2 players)
Hero bets $35, DOOMSWiTCHON goes all-in $263.46, Hero goes all-in $38.38
I dunno what to make on turn, its a slightly weird spot for him to bluff now. I still call it off but it sucks.
Opp had JdTd. gg |
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Posted: Thu, 10 Jul 2008, 6:21am Post subject: |
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