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Posted: Sat, 28 Apr 2007, 5:36pm Post subject:
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Full House

Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 1239 WPP: 140
Location: working on midpairs
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300 hands, +$50.
6Max is actually a nice change of pace from full ring. Today i played mostly 100NL 6Max, with 1 table of 50NL6Max running for a while.
I will play another small session tonight, though it will probably be full ring.
One hand in particular gave me problems in this session. Usually i give up on the turn in this spot but i figured it was more than likely he was holding a draw.
Good/Bad Bet?
Full Tilt Poker Game #2309066497: Table Bevvie (6 max) - $0.50/$1
Hero: ($133.90)
Villan: ($78.15)
4 other players
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero: [Qs Ah]
3 folds
Villan: calls $1
Player 1: calls $0.50
Hero: raises to $5
Villan: calls $4
Player 1: folds
*** FLOP *** [9d Td 4h]
Hero: bets $7.40
Villan: calls $7.40
*** TURN *** [9d Td 4h] [Th]
Hero: bets $20 |
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Posted: Sat, 28 Apr 2007, 6:27pm Post subject:
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Almost as bad as that idiot heybude

Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 3068 WPP: 71
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Posted: Sat, 28 Apr 2007, 8:30pm Post subject:
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Full House

Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 1239 WPP: 140
Location: working on midpairs
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I would be interested in hearing about why many of the American players on this forum play on PokerStars. Is PokerStars VIP program > most Rakeback offers? Are the players on PokerStars significantly weaker?
Currently i am getting 27% RB on FullTilt, but i threw $450 onto PokerStars today to begin liquidating my ePassporte account. This is because long term i think i am going to want to be able to play on two sites for a larger player base to choose from.
So, since i am planning on playing on PokerStars a little bit to help get my Bankroll up to 200-400NL, i am wondering what % of my hours played i should spend on PokerStars/FullTilt.
To help with that question, i would like to be a Goldstar VIP Member with 10k (depositing ~4k during the year on PokerStars) by 01/08. I plan to start at 50NL, but i will be depositing so i don't think playing underrolled is as big of a concern. Unfortunately, i can't use their deposit Bonus since i used to play there before i began playing on FullTilt/Absolute for the Rakeback. |
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Posted: Sat, 28 Apr 2007, 11:14pm Post subject:
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Full House

Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 1239 WPP: 140
Location: working on midpairs
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First session on PokerStars not so good...
Well, i made a huge donk play for stacks. I knew it was bad as i was doing it - i can't believe i didn't stop myself.
Lots of bad players. I am not happy that i didn't walk away with their money. I actually was starting to tilt after my dumb play, so i decided to stop.
200 hands, -$50.
One plus was i got 100 FPP's!  |
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Posted: Sun, 29 Apr 2007, 12:04am Post subject:
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Full House

Joined: 30 Mar 2007
Posts: 915 WPP: 40
Location: Green Bay
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good news for me, you will be off my tables more lol and i when you play 200nl too.
i thought ive heard that PokerStars points system is better than rb but i think thats once you get to a high level in the vip program... but thats just what i remember hearing so dont take my word for it.
you said that you review a lot of your hand histories... thats something i need to do more, actually just post more hands too.
as for improving your table selection, obviously you want high players per flop and high pot sizes, but i also look at who is on the table too, if theres to many regulars i dont like to sit down and im sure atleast on Full Tilt you know who most of the regulars are. |
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Posted: Sun, 29 Apr 2007, 2:14am Post subject:
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Full House

Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 1239 WPP: 140
Location: working on midpairs
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Played on FullTilt for this tiny session.
Well, i just felt like playing some SNG's. I made +$85 in 2 $33 Turbos.
...While i played around 100 hands of 100NL FR for +$10. |
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Posted: Sun, 29 Apr 2007, 2:57am Post subject:
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Full House

Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 1239 WPP: 140
Location: working on midpairs
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Total profits for this week:
(-$25) + (-$220) + ($20) + (-$10) + ($200) + ($50) + (-$50) + ($95) + ($70 - RB) = $130
Grand Total =$525
In 8 days school will be over and i will be playing closer to 15k hands a week. I don't think i will reach my goal of being at 200NL by 5/07, but i will keep playing and see if i can make it to 4k and give it another shot. |
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Posted: Sun, 29 Apr 2007, 9:27pm Post subject:
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Full House

Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 1239 WPP: 140
Location: working on midpairs
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100 hands of 100NL FR, -$50. 9 SNG's, -$20.
I made an absolutely terrible turn bet in my cash game. So bad, i actually turned red when he shoved over me
The SNG's i just got drawn out on.
Nothing to report, except that i am going to go see Hot Fuzz tonight!
Might play some poker when i get back. |
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Posted: Mon, 30 Apr 2007, 4:29pm Post subject:
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Full House

Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 1239 WPP: 140
Location: working on midpairs
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Good session. 600 hands...
100NL FR on FullTilt: +$150
50NL FR on PokerStars: +$120
I actually got drawn out on several times, but a ton of overbets i made on the river with monster hands got looked up. |
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Posted: Mon, 30 Apr 2007, 11:21pm Post subject:
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Full House

Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 1239 WPP: 140
Location: working on midpairs
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Huh. 800 hands, -$100
100NL FR on FullTilt: -$160
50NL FR on PokerStars: +$60
I got stacked 100BB @ FullTilt by a 2 outer on the river.
I got pwned by a fish twice - this was worse than the 2 outer.
I saw Fnord tonight, i think. Unless someone copycatted his name... |
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Posted: Mon, 30 Apr 2007, 11:45pm Post subject:
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Full House

Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 1239 WPP: 140
Location: working on midpairs
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My reason for writing this is i don't think i am winning nearly enough with J-J/Q-Q. I have won twice as much with A-Ks as i have with both of these pairs combined.
And, before you read this, understand that i am calling preflop with J-J/Q-Q at most 1/3rd of the time, since preflop conditions frequently vary and the following post is revolving around a fairly specific preflop series of actions.
Lately i have been thinking that, when faced with a preflop raise, calling with J-J/Q-Q is better, when...
1). No one has just called the initial raise. Since i don't want to play a multiway pot with a hand that will likely remain just a pair, i would then want to reraise to isolate if anyone else was in the pot besides the raiser.
2). It keeps the pot from getting too big before you know where you are in the hand.
3). You are in the CO or the Button. Otherwise, the likelihood of the pot becoming multiway increases and you allow more players behind you better odds to call preflop.
4). The players in the blinds aren't very loose. Otherwise, you are more likely than usual to end up in a multiway pot. Although i do think a pot played in this way will end up being 3 way at least 1/3rd of the time, since the BB is getting a good price to see the flop.
I still like just calling preflop because then your big pair is well concealed, and (provided you do this only in the CO/BTN against an earlier raiser) you will always have position on your opponent. You want position for all the reasons that position is good, but in this scenario it allows you to build a bigger pot against a hand that stands to be weaker than yours by getting to stick in a raise on the flop. Average players with hands like TPTK will often lose around 50BB's in this situation, while they otherwise would've folded the hand preflop had you raised.
But, there are many other scenarios where raising preflop would be +EV or less -EV.
1). you flop a set against K-K+. It is tough to get good opponents to play for stacks in an unreraised pot. While you likely would have won 100BB's, you will probably only get 50BB's.
2). the board comes out draw heavy and your opponent 4bets the flop/calls your reraise and bets the turn. You probably lose 20BB's in this situation.
3). you are against K-K+ and no overcards come on the board. You probably lose 35-50BB's in this situation.
4). one Ace or King hits the flop, and your opponent sticks with you to the turn if you raised, or you call the flop and he bets the turn again. You probably lose an average of -15BB's in this situation.
All of that and more in mind, is it better to "slowplay" J-J/Q-Q preflop in this situation as opposed to raising?
As a follow up question, if you think raising preflop is better in LP, under what circumstances would you just call with J-J/Q-Q preflop?
I edited this quite a bit since cardsman looked at the post. Things are written and organized a little more clearly now, for future readers . My apologizies to him. |
Last edited by Vi-Zer0Skill on Tue, 01 May 2007, 7:29pm; edited 1 time in total
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Posted: Mon, 30 Apr 2007, 11:54pm Post subject:
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Full House

Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 1062 WPP: 101
Location: Being enjoyed at Jack's Bar since 1397
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If I am first in with JJ/QQ I will rarely limp, and only as a change up.
I reraise these in position (as well as other hands).
I don't like to reraise them out of position unless the guy sucks.
If a tight guy raises, I like to call for set value and am quick to dump them if I miss. I think you ask for trouble trying to reraise a tighty because they aren't laying down anything that beats you and likely dump hands you are ahead of like 99/TT.
I wouldn't felt QQ/JJ preflop at $100, but I certainly would at $25 and maybe even $50, and I would consider it at 6max up to $100 depending on how bad the guy sucked.
QQ/JJ are classic "win a small pot lose a big pot hands" like AA/KK. I would expect you would win half as much $ with them as you would with AA/KK.
You will get a flop you don't like at least a third of the time or maybe even more. The times you take it down with a cbet should equal out the times you get outflopped......
I know I am forgetting something but I need to get some sleep....5:30 rolls around too early! |
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Posted: Tue, 01 May 2007, 11:58pm Post subject:
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Full House

Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 1239 WPP: 140
Location: working on midpairs
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600 hands...
50NL FR on PokerStars: -$100
I got lol pwned. No major mistakes, just a bad run of cards.
My post before this is a much better read btw so check it out plz  |
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Posted: Wed, 02 May 2007, 4:36pm Post subject:
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Full House

Joined: 30 Mar 2007
Posts: 915 WPP: 40
Location: Green Bay
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| you could just be running bad with jj/qq? it could also be something like you are paying off too much when you are beat with them postflop.... i dont know, but i dont like just calling preflop unless i feel that just playing for set value would be better than just being aggressive with it. |
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Posted: Thu, 03 May 2007, 12:19am Post subject:
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Full House

Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 1239 WPP: 140
Location: working on midpairs
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150 hands, +$100
I played 1 table of 6Max and 1Table of FR.
I have one hand for discussion. I think i need to c/f turn, and i wonder about my c/r on the flop. Thoughts?
My opponent is a 100-200NL Regular, who is a very good FR player in my PokerTracker database over a couple thousand hands.
Full Tilt Poker Game #2339196348: Table Old Harbor - $0.50/$1
Villan: ($122.90) (25/20/5)
Hero: ($102)
5 other players
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero: [As Ac]
3 folds
Villan: raises to $3.50
1 fold
Vi-Popsmak raises to $14
1 fold
Villan: calls $10.50
*** FLOP *** [8c 9c Tc]
Hero: checks
Villan: bets $9
Hero: raises to $31
Villan: calls $22
*** TURN *** [8c 9c Tc] [Qh]
Hero: checks
Villan: goes AI
Hero: ? |
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Posted: Thu, 03 May 2007, 12:35am Post subject:
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Full House

Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 1239 WPP: 140
Location: working on midpairs
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| Quote: | If I am first in with JJ/QQ I will rarely limp, and only as a change up.
I reraise these in position (as well as other hands).
I don't like to reraise them out of position unless the guy sucks.
If a tight guy raises, I like to call for set value and am quick to dump them if I miss. I think you ask for trouble trying to reraise a tighty because they aren't laying down anything that beats you and likely dump hands you are ahead of like 99/TT.
I wouldn't felt QQ/JJ preflop at $100, but I certainly would at $25 and maybe even $50, and I would consider it at 6max up to $100 depending on how bad the guy sucked.
QQ/JJ are classic "win a small pot lose a big pot hands" like AA/KK. I would expect you would win half as much $ with them as you would with AA/KK.
You will get a flop you don't like at least a third of the time or maybe even more. The times you take it down with a cbet should equal out the times you get outflopped...... |
I agree open limping with J-J/Q-Q is not a good play. I also agree that keeping the pot small when OOP, except against truly bad players, is a good idea. I also like the idea of playing these hands for set value against nits most of the time, at least until you get a better idea of whether he has missed overs or a big pair. How do you play this OOP to a 3bet preflop against a standard TAG at 100NL FR? Do you c/r flop, call and play for set value, c/c lead turn? Against a LAG?
I agree that an "ugly" flops (monotone, Ace or King high) occur at least 1/3rd of the time. I think the roughly equal % of taking the pot down versus getting raised/called on the flop is an interesting observation. That 50/50 seems to me like it would be kind of an important number for something. I just can't seem to take it that extra step to analyze why it seems important right now, except that it makes the mathematical + or - of raising preflop zero, since even if the pot is bigger on the flop you don't stand to win more % wise as opposed to a small pot on the flop, though it is true that your hand seems weaker when you just call preflop instead of 3bet.
| Quote: | | you could just be running bad with jj/qq? it could also be something like you are paying off too much when you are beat with them postflop.... i dont know, but i dont like just calling preflop unless i feel that just playing for set value would be better than just being aggressive with it. |
lol, i wish i was just running bad with J-J/Q-Q. I think i just suck with them at this point in my poker career. I bet i am spewing too much postflop with these hands. Actually i am thinking that we can pick off a lot of c-bet with these hands if we just call in LP, which was the main reason why i asked about how people play J-J/Q-Q in LP. As for the postflop spewing i am probably doing with these hands, i think just letting them go more on the turn will help a lot and giving flop reraises more respect when it is needed.
I think i wanted to post something else but i can't remember right now. |
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Posted: Thu, 03 May 2007, 1:36am Post subject:
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Full House

Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 1239 WPP: 140
Location: working on midpairs
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I remember now...
I want to do a mini operation!
I looked at the other 100NL regs who have operation blogs on this forum, and realized their BB/100's were at least twice as high as mine. I was mostly 6-8 tabling this month, and i know that i was playing like a robot for most of my sessions, since i was running so many tables. I have also realized as of late that my game has a lot of leaks that i didnt even notice, to the point where i am probably spewing literally thousands of dollars over the course of a month that i could probably avoid if i just closed a few tables and focused more on what i was doing. Obviously i win less, but i lose less too when i am playing 3-5 tables instead of 6-8. I hope to accomplish a few things while i decrease the number of tables i am running:
1). Really practice table selection. Fish find before i sit down, FR tables with 20BB+ Average pot and 35%+ players to a flop.
2). Identify and correct many more leaks in my game, since i will be paying more attention.
3). Use reads and notes more effectively while playing.
4). Incorporate new concepts and ideas i am learning from this forum, as well as some stuff i observed while watching some cardrunner videos (i joined last night). I think this will be a lot easier to do while i am running less tables
My goal: at least 15k hands 3-5 tabling with 4BB/100 or higher, alternating between 6Max and Full Ring. Obviously variance can just decide to pwn my mission but i think i will be able to tell if i am running bad or am still playing like a donk.
I mean, with all the basic leaks i still have in my game, i can probably make the same amount of money playing 8 tables as i can doing 4 tables, even though i get a lot more in rb with more tables running. And, if i plan on actually winning at mid stakes, i need to get a lot better. |
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Posted: Thu, 03 May 2007, 2:07am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind

Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 3558 WPP: 84
Location: right here
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| re: the hand two posts above. I don't mind your line. I probably bet the flop, 3-bet push, but I don't mind the c/r as a change of pace. As played, it looks like you may have induced a bluff on the turn, so call that push. If he does have a K, then you still have 9 clean outs. |
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Posted: Sat, 05 May 2007, 1:25am Post subject:
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Full House

Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 1239 WPP: 140
Location: working on midpairs
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700 hands, +$270.
A mix of 100NL 6Max and 100/200NL FR on FullTilt. Pretty much even profits at both limits. I ran 3-4 tables, and found some very weak players and did a good job of taking money off of them. I might post some hands tomorrow - i am going out soon.
I might play some 20 Table tourneys on PokerStars later tonight when i get back. |
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Posted: Sat, 05 May 2007, 9:26pm Post subject:
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Full House

Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 1239 WPP: 140
Location: working on midpairs
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1000 hands, +$100.
Mix of 100, 200 NL 6Max and some 100, 200 NL FR on FullTilt. I felt like the first half of the session was some of the best poker i have ever played; cardrunners.com is such an awesome teaching tool. The second half was where i started to win money, but i had to luckbox 2 big pots (1 30/70 and 1 40/60 for +$400 total) to get it.
What should i do on the turn in this hand? I don't like my preflop 3bet, and i wonder if i should just fold on the flop but i am unsure of what would be the best way to proceed. Comments on all streets appreciated.
Full Tilt Poker Game #2359425222: Table Elkington (6 max) - $0.50/$1
Seat 1: Hero: ($104.55)
Seat 2: Villan: ($104.6)
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero: [As 8s]
Villan: raises to $3.50
Hero: raises to $13
4 folds
Villan: calls $9.50
*** FLOP *** [Th 5d Ad]
Villan: bets $10
Hero: calls $10
*** TURN *** [Th 5d Ad] [Ah]
Villan: bets $10
Hero: ? |
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Posted: Sun, 06 May 2007, 2:04am Post subject:
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Full House

Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 1239 WPP: 140
Location: working on midpairs
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Week 4 Results: (-$70) + ($270) + (-$100) + (-$100) + ($100) + ($270) + ($100) + ($60 - RB) = +$530
Grand Total: +$1055
Almost a 30 Day Period now, and technically i am up +$2155 (I went on a huge rush over 4k hands the night before i started my operation). Most of this was playing 10-15 hours/week. Counting my heater in the earlier part of April i have "averaging" good variance during this period. Still, i am quite happy with the result since i plan on being able to play twice as many hours a week when i am done working. I have also learned a ton about poker since the start of the my operation, which is good because i need to be a much better poker player than i am right now if i want to make a good living playing poker full time.
Long story short, so far so good. |
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Posted: Sun, 06 May 2007, 12:25pm Post subject:
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Full House

Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 1239 WPP: 140
Location: working on midpairs
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Plan: Make 10k by 9/07
Goal: Play 100k hands by 9/07
Benchmarks:
By September:
I hope to have a 15-17k Bankroll. This puts me in a really good position to begin taking shots at 400NL. If I am below 12k by September, I ought to be planning on either going to school full time.
By November:
I hope to have a 20k Bankroll. This puts me within reaching distance of my 25k Bankroll, and at which point I will have 2 months to make 5k (12.5 buy ins) at 400NL. That is an average of .25 buy ins a day – quite easy playing 15hrs/wk with any win rate. If I am below 17k by November, I ought to be planning on either going to school full time.
By January:
If everything has gone close to plan, I should be anywhere between 22-25k, and be comfortable “rolled” to go full time. If I am below 19k by January, I ought to be planning to go to school full time.
Stop Loss:
Assuming I start with a 25k Bankroll when I begin playing in January:
I figure that a 10 buy in downswing can easily be normal variance. Anything significantly over that is more likely the result of poor play or being at a limit I cannot win at. So, in my mind losing 8k is a reasonable stop loss goal, since that is the equivalent of 20 buy ins at 400NL, the limit I plan to be playing at. Should i drop around 20 buy ins, i will at that point sign up for the fall semester as a full time student.
Well, i tossed out the math i had earlier. The benchmarks still seemed relevant so i left them. |
Last edited by Vi-Zer0Skill on Thu, 10 May 2007, 1:29am; edited 1 time in total
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Posted: Sun, 06 May 2007, 1:19pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind

Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 3558 WPP: 84
Location: right here
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Posted: Sun, 06 May 2007, 1:50pm Post subject:
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Straight Flush

Joined: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 7939 WPP: 71
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
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i like your math.
My only problem with what i see in your thread is that i can sit at a 100nl 6max or full ring game running fairly good and put together a run 0f 10bbs+ on 15k samples.
You dont seem to run much better than 5-6bbs/100 even at bets which suggests you need to work on post flop play.
Theres little doubt you are a winning player, but at the moment i see you as a numbers grinder rather than a player with a much higher skill level than those you play with.
Maybe its just the games you play in, but even on stars when i run good i run 10bbs/100+ good even versus good players...
just my 2cents. |
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Posted: Sun, 06 May 2007, 7:58pm Post subject:
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Full House

Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 1239 WPP: 140
Location: working on midpairs
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| Quote: | My only problem with what i see in your thread is that i can sit at a 100nl 6max or full ring game running fairly good and put together a run 0f 10bbs+ on 15k samples.
You dont seem to run much better than 5-6bbs/100 even at bets which suggests you need to work on post flop play.
Theres little doubt you are a winning player, but at the moment i see you as a numbers grinder rather than a player with a much higher skill level than those you play with.
Maybe its just the games you play in, but even on stars when i run good i run 10bbs/100+ good even versus good players... |
I agree that my postflop is average at best. Since Wednesday when i finally signed up at cardrunners.com, i have seen probably a dozen videos and taken 3 or 4 tips away from each one. I have tons of scrap paper all around my desk with new lines and notes on good/bad c-bet flop textures. I hope Massimo doesn't mind me reading his thread after my little fit.
I actually am happy, but not content, that i am a winning player. I recall posting a hand when i first joined where i called 3 streets OOP with A-9 (TPTK) on a monotone flop against an unknown (i didn't have PT or take notes ). Everyone was like, "dude he has a set", and i was like, "no he was bluffing i wuz sure of it" . I think i dropped about 15 buy ins at 100NL before i started to turn it around (no PT to document it, but i know i blew through all the money i won playing SNG's that summer and a lucky cash in the Sunday Million). I feel i have come a long way in the last 7 months (ty FTR).
My table selection has improved dramatically in the last month. I can now find 1-2 fish at any table i am sitting at. I am also actively isolating them now. So hopefully it isn't the games i am sitting in anymore that is hurting my BB/100.
The thing i am most happy about today with poker is that this time, unlike a few weeks ago, i have zero doubt i can win at 200NL. |
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Posted: Sun, 06 May 2007, 8:06pm Post subject:
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Straight Flush

Joined: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 7939 WPP: 71
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
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you'll be a winning player upto 400nl fr without much effort IMO. Your postflop game wouldnt need a whole lot of improvement regardless.
My issue is the same as always, how often have you played 1 or 2 tables and really tried to dominate the play?
Also, are you making a lot of thin calls that are maybe just +ev or ~ev that come from reading half decently?
If not id cut down from 6-8 tables and play a few less concentrating on playing goot and dominating tables than actually winning a whole load of money.
Id love to dig out an old post of demipardigm's showing potential semi-taggy opening ranges and compare them to yours to see how predictable you are (not always a bad thing) |
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Posted: Sun, 06 May 2007, 10:04pm Post subject:
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Full House

Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 1239 WPP: 140
Location: working on midpairs
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| Quote: | | My issue is the same as always, how often have you played 1 or 2 tables and really tried to dominate the play? |
This seems close to my newest "min operation". I might want to chop off the 3rd and 4th table for a while, though.
| Quote: | | Also, are you making a lot of thin calls that are maybe just +ev or ~ev that come from reading half decently? |
Yeah, too much. I am trying to make my hero calls only on missed draw boards for the most part lately.
| Quote: | | Id love to dig out an old post of demipardigm's showing potential semi-taggy opening ranges and compare them to yours to see how predictable you are (not always a bad thing) |
I have no idea how to do this except manually look through all of his posts. I sifted through them for a couple of minutes but gave up. Do you know what month he wrote this(assuming i have to just look through all of his posts)?
I played like 700 hands of 200NL 6Max for -$400. I thought i played fairly well, and just ran into better hands. . But i do remember 1-2 calls that i probably shouldn't have made, and a river c/r into a good hand (he min bet flop, 1/5PSB turn, river -- it looked so weak!!!) I have to keep in mind that it is really not $400 but instead 2 buy ins. It helps for my sanity I also realized i haven't had a winning session on a Sunday since i started this mission. I probably need to start going to church again...
(In order, from best to worst) Which of these flops do you like to double barrel best? I was getting floated like crazy, and i need to double barrel more to counter it. I would assume in 6Max you would need to double barrel a little more, but i don't think it matters significantly whether its FR or 6Max - for the sake of my examples. If it is, that's probably something i need to know lol.
Flop 1: 4c 6h 9c
Flop 2: 4c 6h 9d
Flop 3: Qs 7s 2d
Flop 4: Qd 7s 2h
Flop 5: Ac 7c 4s
(I am not normally double barreling an A-x-x board if i get called on the flop)
Flop 6: 5d 6h 8d
Flop 7: Ks Qs 7h
Flop 8: Qs Jd 3c
Do you double barrel a lot more on boards with 2 of the same suit on the flop?
I think thats enough, but if you have different types of flop textures or want to go in depth with a specific type of flop texture, i would really appreciate it.
And, i am probably going back to playing 100NL 6Max, until i can better grasp some of these postflop concepts.
Now that i am on page 2 of my operation, it seems fitting to thank everyone who has posted in it so far. Thank you! |
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Posted: Mon, 07 May 2007, 1:23am Post subject:
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Full House

Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 1239 WPP: 140
Location: working on midpairs
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500 hands, +$500.
I ran only two tables this session. I almost didn't turn my computer on but after reading some stuff on FTR and watching some vids on cardrunners i felt "inspired" to try to have a winning Sunday. I did it!
This is one of the best pots i have ever played IMO.
Full Tilt Poker Game #2369876235: Table Anthem Club - $1/$2
Hero: ($221.55)
Villan: ($140.85)
Notes on Villan: "Super aggro playing too many hands"
7 other players
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero: [As Jh]
4 folds
Hero: raises to $7
Villan: calls $7
3 folds
Preflop was simply standard.
*** FLOP *** [Js 9c Th] ($16.80)
Hero: checks
Villan: bets $17
Hero: calls $17
I decided that i didn't want to bloat the pot OOP with just TPTK on such a draw heavy board. His flop bet was large, but i wasn't ready to give up on my hand yet. It was entirely possible in my mind that he was just trying to steal with a small PP, or A-x.
*** TURN *** [Js 9c Th] [9h] ($50.40)
Hero: checks
Villan: bets $51
Hero: raises to $130
This is where i feel that i made one of my greatest moves ever (for the right reason). His turn bet was just too large to be any of the hands i was afraid of. I figured if he had two pair/ set on the flop (FH or Quads on turn), he was going to want to bet a lot less to price in drawing hands. I figured if he had K-Q, he would want to value bet/ avoid pot committing himself and so i expected a smaller bet from that hand. I couldn't put him on Q-Q+ since he didn't reraise preflop. All i could put him on was a bluff or a draw.
Villan: calls $65.85, and is all in
Hero: shows [As Jh]
Villan: shows [Jd Qs]
*** RIVER *** [Js 9c Th 9h] [Ah] |
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Posted: Mon, 07 May 2007, 2:55am Post subject:
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Straight

Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 168 WPP: 109
Location: Denmark
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When your looking to double barrel, it depends mostly on the turn card. If it is a card that changes the board. Say if the board is:
6c 2s Jh - you c-bet and get called
6c 2s Jh Kd - this is a perfect spot to double barrel, because if he called your flop bet with 77-1010 maybe 10J he will probably let it go and give you credit for the king. |
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Posted: Mon, 07 May 2007, 7:25am Post subject:
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Straight Flush

Joined: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 7939 WPP: 71
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
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| Vi-Zer0Skill wrote: | 500 hands, +$500.
I ran only two tables this session. I almost didn't turn my computer on but after reading some stuff on FTR and watching some vids on cardrunners i felt "inspired" to try to have a winning Sunday. I did it!
This is one of the best pots i have ever played IMO.
Full Tilt Poker Game #2369876235: Table Anthem Club - $1/$2
Hero: ($221.55)
Villan: ($140.85)
Notes on Villan: "Super aggro playing too many hands"
7 other players
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero: [As Jh]
4 folds
Hero: raises to $7
Villan: calls $7
3 folds
Preflop was simply standard.
*** FLOP *** [Js 9c Th] ($16.80)
Hero: checks
Villan: bets $17
Hero: calls $17
I decided that i didn't want to bloat the pot OOP with just TPTK on such a draw heavy board. His flop bet was large, but i wasn't ready to give up on my hand yet. It was entirely possible in my mind that he was just trying to steal with a small PP, or A-x.
*** TURN *** [Js 9c Th] [9h] ($50.40)
Hero: checks
Villan: bets $51
Hero: raises to $130
This is where i feel that i made one of my greatest moves ever (for the right reason). His turn bet was just too large to be any of the hands i was afraid of. I figured if he had two pair/ set on the flop (FH or Quads on turn), he was going to want to bet a lot less to price in drawing hands. I figured if he had K-Q, he would want to value bet/ avoid pot committing himself and so i expected a smaller bet from that hand. I couldn't put him on Q-Q+ since he didn't reraise preflop. All i could put him on was a bluff or a draw.
Villan: calls $65.85, and is all in
Hero: shows [As Jh]
Villan: shows [Jd Qs]
*** RIVER *** [Js 9c Th 9h] [Ah] |
i lead turn and lead a safe looking river. This only gets called by better hands like JT/KQ...and sets... |
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Posted: Mon, 07 May 2007, 11:17pm Post subject:
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Full House

Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 1239 WPP: 140
Location: working on midpairs
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100 hands, +$5.
Really short. I decided to watch the daily show and colbert report.
School is finally over. More time for poker.
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Posted: Tue, 08 May 2007, 8:32pm Post subject:
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Full House

Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 1239 WPP: 140
Location: working on midpairs
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500 hands, +$280. I ran 3 tables, 1 200NL FR and 2 100NL 6Max.
I basically broke even at 6Max. I got 2 outered for 70BB's early on, but found a huge fish and basically stacked him to recoup my losses. I think i won $15 or so at 6Max.
Full Ring went well tonight. I flopped top boat, and the fish stacked off for 80BB's with a small straight. In another hand, i made a successful bluff on a paired flop. I decided to do it because my VPIP was 9% and PFR was 5% (mostly card dead after i flopped my boat), and i figured a strong line would get some respect. I figured he probably had 8-8/J-J, based on his call preflop and after he c/r'ed the flop. I had A-8 and reraised him and he instantly folded. Otherwise I just took down pots with c-bets. |
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Posted: Tue, 08 May 2007, 8:34pm Post subject:
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Full House

Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 1239 WPP: 140
Location: working on midpairs
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| Quote: | When your looking to double barrel, it depends mostly on the turn card. If it is a card that changes the board. Say if the board is:
6c 2s Jh - you c-bet and get called
6c 2s Jh Kd - this is a perfect spot to double barrel, because if he called your flop bet with 77-1010 maybe 10J he will probably let it go and give you credit for the king. |
Nice post. I agree that this is a good spot to double barrel.
If the card had come a 4d instead, would you bet? |
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Posted: Wed, 09 May 2007, 6:21am Post subject:
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Straight

Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 168 WPP: 109
Location: Denmark
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No I wouldent, first of all there is not really any draws he could have, a if he has a jack or a mid PP this card does not change anything.
Double or trippel barreling regs on low flops might be a good idea to rep a monster because he can't really put you on any other hand. But on the 100-200NL level I think this is overthinking things. |
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Posted: Wed, 09 May 2007, 7:15am Post subject:
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Full House

Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 1239 WPP: 140
Location: working on midpairs
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| Quote: | | No I wouldent, first of all there is not really any draws he could have, a if he has a jack or a mid PP this card does not change anything. |
So, leading a blank turn after getting floated on the flop is usually going to be spew (makes logical sense). One more leak down, ty
| Quote: | | Double or trippel barreling regs on low flops might be a good idea to rep a monster because he can't really put you on any other hand. But on the 100-200NL level I think this is overthinking things. |
I am of the opinion that this is a great thing to do against regulars, at least periodically. I was watching a cardrunners video, and sbrugby mentioned that he sometimes double barrels low boards at mid stakes to rep a big hand, even if he suspects that he will get called on the turn. He said it was to protect his big pair hands, meaning that he will get raised/called down a lot lighter when he double barrels and therefore his K-K/A-A stands to be a favorite against his opponents range. And then i assume he justs value bets a safe river...
(btw, he was playing 400NL so i don't know how relevant it is. i would say at 100NL you are correct that even the regulars might not even fold a small overpair to a strong double barrel, but at 200NL i would think the players are more aware and may actually give me credit for a hand).
Plus, sometimes a nitty regular will just give you credit for that big pair, particularly when you open from EP with like a small pocket pair, and you will take the pot down.
Learning when to double barrel is a big concept for me to master, especially as i move up in stakes. Thanks for the feedback Kauf |
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Posted: Wed, 09 May 2007, 7:19am Post subject:
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Straight Flush

Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 4170 WPP: 77
Location: Dublin
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but when you use it make sure its vs a reg or the table has at least 2 regs that will notice. plus those regs cant be players who multitables more than 8 tables.
I dont think you need to balance much at 200NL, solid play will work IMO. ive learned this hard way i think. |
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Posted: Wed, 09 May 2007, 3:32pm Post subject:
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Full House

Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 1062 WPP: 101
Location: Being enjoyed at Jack's Bar since 1397
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At the risk of appearing weak tight, I do believe that leading flop after being floated is spew. You have to do it once in a while to balance the times you do it after catching on the turn, though, or this becomes easy to read.
FWIW, I don't know that many regulars at $100 that would fold overpairs to three barrels, either, unless the obvious draw comes in. They don't let their pairs go (and yes I am guilty too). |
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Posted: Wed, 09 May 2007, 10:48pm Post subject:
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Full House

Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 1239 WPP: 140
Location: working on midpairs
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225 hands, +$380 at 4 tables of 200NL FR.
I won a coinflop for stacks against Q-Q with my A-K. I will post the HH to explain why i thought shoving PF was +EV.
Some history: i have only been at the table for 3 orbits but i have raised limpers 3 times previously. Just the hand before i had done it with 7d-6d and folded to a 3bet preflop, though not by anyone in this hand. Both of the players are relatively unknown to me(no notes), though i will include stats (caution: small sample sizes).
My Thoughts: I can easily see Player 1 3 betting me here seeing as my image at the moment is fairly loose and aggressive. Villan(Fish?)'s CC to the 3 bet was pretty scary, but i kind of figured him to be a weaker player so i didn't think he would always have K-K/A-A and might fold a portion of his CC range to a shove. Anyways with the $70 in the pot i figured a shove would be best.
Your Thoughts?
Full Tilt Poker Game #2390010555: Table Horizon Lake - $1/$2
Villan(Fish?): ($198) (30/0 over 25 hands)
Hero: ($254.65)
Player 1: ($141.50) (31/8 over 75 hands)
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero: [Kc As]
2 folds
Limper 1: calls $2
Vi-Popsmak raises to $10
1 fold
Player 1: raises to $30
1 fold
Villan(Fish?): calls $28
Limper 1: folds
Hero: raises to $254.65, and is all in
Player 1: folds
Villan(Fish?): calls $168, and is all in
Hero: shows [Kc As]
Villan(Fish?): shows [Qc Qh]
*** FLOP *** [4d Kh 7h]
*** TURN *** [4d Kh 7h] [Kd]
*** RIVER *** [4d Kh 7h Kd] [9s]
Hero: shows three of a kind, Kings
Villan(Fish?): shows two pair, Kings and Queens
Hero: wins the pot ($426) with three of a kind, Kings
Other than that, just good poker. I am playing much better in the last week since i:
a). signed up for cardrunners (I recommend this a TON lol)
and
b). shut down a few of my extra tables. (ty miffed for the encouragement ) |
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Posted: Thu, 10 May 2007, 3:44pm Post subject:
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Full House

Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 1239 WPP: 140
Location: working on midpairs
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700 hands, -$270.
100NL FR - -$200
200NL Fr - +$200
100NL 6Max - Break Even
200NL 6Max- -$270
Well, 200NL 6Max pwned me. I made a spewy play for $100 and essentially stayed at a table where the money was no longer soft.
I played Q-Q pretty bad against a 100BB stack. He had K-K.
I got 3bet a lot at 6Max, but i played back at it a little better. The one
time i called a 3bet IP and raised the flop the opponent must have had the goods because he shoved and i had to fold.
Not too worried, since i figure i learned from my mistakes today, and feel that some of it was due to some variance. I might play some more tonight, but may end up just studying HH's and watching vids. Hopefully my nex session is a little "smoother sailing". |
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Posted: Fri, 11 May 2007, 12:53am Post subject:
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Full House

Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 1239 WPP: 140
Location: working on midpairs
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130 hands, +$130. I played 200NL 6Max for +$90, 200NL FR for +$80,
... and 1 100NL HU for -$33.65 (bought in weird to make it look like i was a fish/broke ). The HU session was basically on a whim; i wonder how much money the HU pros make in Rakeback alone seeing as they play 200+ hands/hr.
-- btw i lost my stack when i shoved a blank turn with my pair + FD and got called by flopped two pair. --
But i actually have one fairly interesting hand from 6Max. I don't know whether calling the turn is good, though i may have as many as 15 live outs. I think that once i called the flop i was going to have to play for stacks on any non Ten turn, so perhaps the flop call is worth more discussion.
I wasn't at the table for very long, but it seemed to me that Villan was at least tilting, if not a bad player. The chat box clued me in to him being a little frustrated -- someone had folded to him when he had a good hand, apparently. No useful stats since villan is unkown to me.
Full Tilt Poker Game #2398251081: Table Comchec (6 max) - $1/$2
Hero: ($197.15)
Villan: ($103.30)
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero: [Js Ks]
Player 1: calls $2
1 fold
Hero: raises to $9
2 folds
Villan: calls $7
Player 1: folds
*** FLOP *** [9h Td 2s]
Villan: checks
Hero: bets $14
Villan: raises to $40
Hero: calls $26
*** TURN *** [9h Td 2s] [6s]
Villan: bets $54.30, and is all in
Hero: calls $54.30 |
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Posted: Fri, 11 May 2007, 7:17am Post subject:
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Straight Flush

Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 4170 WPP: 77
Location: Dublin
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| Vi-Zer0Skill wrote: |
*** FLOP *** [9h Td 2s]
Villan: checks
Hero: bets $14
Villan: raises to $40
Hero: calls $26 |
I dont like  |
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Posted: Fri, 11 May 2007, 7:28am Post subject:
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Full House

Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 1062 WPP: 101
Location: Being enjoyed at Jack's Bar since 1397
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Flop call is WAY worse than turn call.
Plus if he has JT/KT you may have serious reverse implied odds.
You prolly sucked out the flush...amirite? |
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Posted: Fri, 11 May 2007, 8:26am Post subject:
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Full House

Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 1239 WPP: 140
Location: working on midpairs
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| Quote: | | Quote: | Vi-Zer0Skill wrote:
*** FLOP *** [9h Td 2s]
Villan: checks
Hero: bets $14
Villan: raises to $40
Hero: calls $26 |
I dont like |
I figure a lot of people agree with this. I really didn't want to fold with two overcards and a straight draw (+ backdoor flush cardsman ) getting 3:1 on the flop. But, in this analysis after the hand i think folding is probably best because most turn cards, unlike the one i got, are blanks and don't improve my hand making my decision there difficult. I thought about shoving on the flop but since i have little FE it doesn't really make sense, so yeah i am going to agree that i should have just tossed the hand on the flop.
| Quote: | Flop call is WAY worse than turn call.
Plus if he has JT/KT you may have serious reverse implied odds.
You prolly sucked out the flush...amirite? |
Yeah the flop call is much worse than the turn call. I think on the turn i had to call, though i had to use the timer to perform my pot odds calculations.
I didn't really take this into consideration at any point in the hand, and it basically is another point in favor of a flop fold.
lol, i didn't need to.
***RIVER***
[9h Td 2s] [6s] [2c]
Villan: shows Qc 7h
Hero: shows Ks Js
Hero wins pot $200.60 with a pair of twos.
I wonder how often a shortstack is bluffing in this spot? That was one of the factors that i considered when i made my flop call. |
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Posted: Fri, 11 May 2007, 9:08am Post subject:
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Full House

Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 1062 WPP: 101
Location: Being enjoyed at Jack's Bar since 1397
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easy way to calculate straight pot odds without factoring his range into it....
((# of outs)*2)+2 % of hitting with one card.
replace *2 with *4 with two to come if you are seeing the river for free (ie shoving or certain to get free river card in position).
On turn, I wouldn't count your overcards as clean outs, maybe cut them in half. If you are already behind to a set, then you only have 7 flush outs. str8 outs (3) gives you 10-11 outs on turn. So you would have to be getting approx 3:1 on the turn call IMO.
I wouldn't make air a large part of his range in most cases though......even shortstacked.
Thoughts? |
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Posted: Fri, 11 May 2007, 9:10am Post subject:
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Straight Flush

Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 4170 WPP: 77
Location: Dublin
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| just let him have the pot, you cant break a poor player every hand. this hand isnt even marginal on the flop, its bad IMHO. |
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Posted: Fri, 11 May 2007, 9:12am Post subject:
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Full House

Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 1062 WPP: 101
Location: Being enjoyed at Jack's Bar since 1397
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GOAT is right....
I forgot to mention also that his "air" can be Ax a lot of times and you can be behind to it too..... |
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Posted: Fri, 11 May 2007, 9:23pm Post subject:
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Full House

Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 1239 WPP: 140
Location: working on midpairs
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Thanks for the responses guys -- i agree now that a flop fold is the best option.
225 hands, +$150, 3 100NL FR and 1 200NL FR.
I was over at my friends tonight, and we took turns ghosting each others 1 hr sessions. He was playing 10NL and won +$13 so i figured we probably had similar winrates tonight, seeing as we both ran the same number of tables.
Nothing to post really. I hope to play 2-3k hands this weekend and have a lot more questions for you guys  |
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Posted: Sat, 12 May 2007, 3:47am Post subject:
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Full House

Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 1239 WPP: 140
Location: working on midpairs
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250 hands, -$150, 1 200NL 6Max, 1 200NL FR.
Dropped a buy in at 200NL 6Max. I need to stop playing at that limit lol -- the regulars > me atm. This is the hand i lost it on. I played this horribly so i won't post what i did, i just wonder what the optimal line would be. I feel too lazy to go through PT so i just wrote the HH myself. Stack sizes are approximate
Hero: ($220)
Villan: ($370)
4 other players
***PREFLOP***
Dealt to Hero: [Ac] [Kd]
Hero: raises $6 to $8
Villan: calls $8
4 folds
***FLOP***
As Qs 3c
Hero: bets $18
Villan: raises $22 to $40
Hero: ? |
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Posted: Sat, 12 May 2007, 1:06pm Post subject:
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Full House

Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 1239 WPP: 140
Location: working on midpairs
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First, a non session related post...
Well, i ordered some datamining software for FullTilt on Wednesday. I am looking forward to using that to solidify my stats, and to help me find some weaker players. I am really happy with this week overall. Shutting down some of the extra tables i was running proved to be very beneficial. I also feel like i added a lot of new knowledge to my game this week - my thanks to anyone who has posted in this thread.
200NL Full Ring has been really good to me this week. While i dropped 2 buy ins at 200NL 6 Max, i won 6.5 buy ins at 200NL Full Ring. I am determined to become a winning 6 Max player, but for now at least i think i am going to really force myself to play 50-100NL 6Max until i can log enough hands to see if i am winning or not and develop some more serius postflop skillz . I am not denying that i had some good variance this week, but i also feel like i played significantly better this week than i ever have before.
Things That Went Well This Week:(no particular order):
1). Watching Cardrunners Videos
2). Posting HH's on FTR
3). Reading/Studying Poker, on FTR and PT
4). Utilizing my HUD
5). Testing Hand Ranges Using Pokerstove
6). Good Variance
7). Reducing my Number of Tables from 6-8 to 2-4
8). Obvious Improvement on Flop Play - particularly a better balanced c-bet %
9). Good Use of the Double Barrell
10). Tighting up OOP, 3betting More IP
Most of these things i was not doing 2 weeks ago, or at least not doing them enough.
I hope to get in a pretty decent session 4 tabling tonight, somewhere between 3-5 hours. I doubt i will be playing 6Max, so hopefully things continue to go well at Full Ring. |
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Posted: Sat, 12 May 2007, 5:00pm Post subject:
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Full House

Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 1239 WPP: 140
Location: working on midpairs
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350 hands, +$200, 3 200NL FR
I lost a 90/10 for $120 and a 70/30 for $200 in this session, and won 0 coinflips. I think this was another session where i played some of my best poker ever.
I made what i thought was a good c/r on the turn. Thoughts?
Full Tilt Poker Game #2409313349: Table Orange Vale - $1/$2
Hero: ($205.75)
Villan: ($170) (26/8/4 over 600 hands)
6 other players
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero: [7d 7c]
2 folds
Hero: raises to $8
1 fold
Villan: calls $8
3 folds
*** FLOP *** [6s 9c 8c]
Hero: bets $14
Villan: calls $14
*** TURN *** [6s 9c 8c] [9h]
Hero: checks
Villan: bets $25
Hero: goes AI
I could have value bet my A-A flopped set a little better, but i still nearly doubled up against an A-Q played c/c all 3 streets. |
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