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Posted: Fri, 06 Nov 2009, 10:02pm Post subject: nitty fold? hand two...another dropped set
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Straight Flush
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 4209
WPP: 150
Location: St. Louis, MO
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sorry for the lack of converter. this is a friend's hand he emailed to me and the converters wouldn't support the format.
villain is a 28/17 over small sample. please give honest feedback on hero's line vs villains suspected range.
Table 'Roehla' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: mdford ($32.75 in chips)
Seat 3: apacz ($39.20 in chips)
Seat 4: RX8TGREY ($22.85 in chips)
Seat 5: HERO ($40.85 in chips)
Seat 6: I2ainyDay ($26 in chips)
I2ainyDay: posts small blind $0.10
mdford: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to HERO [3d 3h]
apacz: folds
RX8TGREY: folds
HERO: raises $0.50 to $0.75
I2ainyDay: folds
mdford: calls $0.50
*** FLOP *** [4c 2h 7s]
mdford: checks
HERO: bets $1.25
mdford: calls $1.25
*** TURN *** [4c 2h 7s] [3c]
mdford: checks
HERO: bets $2.25
mdford: raises $5.25 to $7.50
HERO: calls $5.25
*** RIVER *** [4c 2h 7s 3c] [Qs]
mdford: bets $23.25 and is all-in
HERO said, "nh"
HERO: folds
Uncalled bet ($23.25) returned to mdford
mdford collected $18.20 from pot |
Last edited by Chopper on Wed, 11 Nov 2009, 10:21am; edited 1 time in total
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Posted: Sat, 07 Nov 2009, 3:18am Post subject:
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2009
Joined: 16 Feb 2007
Posts: 1656
WPP: 64
Location: bluffing scare cards
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| I would never fold the river here there's 2 straights out there and both were gutshots on the flop. The line is fine. |
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Posted: Sat, 07 Nov 2009, 3:24am Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 25 May 2008
Posts: 1147
WPP: 64
Location: Manc U.K.
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| I think this is a fold. Only beat 22 that takes this line for value. |
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Posted: Sat, 07 Nov 2009, 3:57am Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 592
WPP: 114
Location: Montreal, Canada
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| 56 which is the nuts was an open ender on the flop...i think folding here is fine at these stakes. |
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Posted: Sat, 07 Nov 2009, 9:56am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 3304
WPP: 87
Location: Toronto'ish
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| meeloche wrote: | | I would never fold the river here there's 2 straights out there and both were gutshots on the flop. The line is fine. |
meeloche is back to his quality hand reading ways! Yah 56 OESD ftw imo.
If I'm playing good, this river is a fold. |
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Posted: Sat, 07 Nov 2009, 11:34am Post subject:
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Straight Flush
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 4209
WPP: 150
Location: St. Louis, MO
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| i am amazed you guys are saying this is a fold. you dont see 88-TT turning himself into a bluff often with his metrics? |
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Posted: Sat, 07 Nov 2009, 2:41pm Post subject:
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{NSFW - nipple}
Joined: 11 Jun 2005
Posts: 2186
WPP: 107
Location: The Loser's Lounge
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| Chopper wrote: | | i am amazed you guys are saying this is a fold. you dont see 88-TT turning himself into a bluff often with his metrics? |
Turning a hand that's likely to be good into a full stack bluff in what's going to be a reasonably small pot? You never gave any read about him being awful. I think its a good fold. |
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Posted: Sat, 07 Nov 2009, 5:03pm Post subject:
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Straight Flush
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 4209
WPP: 150
Location: St. Louis, MO
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you guys play more NL than i do, and higher as well. i guess i stand corrected. thank you.
so, if we had more of our stack in the middle, we dont get away? |
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Posted: Sat, 07 Nov 2009, 8:16pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 07 Feb 2008
Posts: 1031
WPP: 92
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| Bet bigger on turn !!!!! River becomes an easier fold if turn bet was bigger. |
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Posted: Mon, 09 Nov 2009, 1:59pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
Posts: 1369
WPP: 90
Location: KC, MO
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If Chopper gave the original stats read correctly then I think it's a lot closer. His stats were 22/18/2, not 28/17 as posted above. I don't see enough 65s or A5s in his range to warrant a fold with a 4% flatting range. Also our image is tight, like 18/16 A2S of 25-30ish.
The villain's line does say "I have the nuts!" though.
Does that change anyone's opinion?? |
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Posted: Mon, 09 Nov 2009, 2:58pm Post subject:
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Straight Flush
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 4209
WPP: 150
Location: St. Louis, MO
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| Silly String wrote: | If Chopper gave the original stats read correctly then I think it's a lot closer. His stats were 22/18/2, not 28/17 as posted above. I don't see enough 65s or A5s in his range to warrant a fold with a 4% flatting range. Also our image is tight, like 18/16 A2S of 25-30ish.
The villain's line does say "I have the nuts!" though.
Does that change anyone's opinion?? |
you are both right and wrong, string. i messed up with villains stats. yours are right. however, dont assume our "hero" is this loose...lol. he is a nit that runs a lot closer to 12/9, but is trying to overcome his nittiness by opening up lately. |
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Posted: Wed, 11 Nov 2009, 10:20am Post subject:
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Straight Flush
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 4209
WPP: 150
Location: St. Louis, MO
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hand 2..i just dont see this as being a good "habit" to get into, but my friend thinks he makes great laydowns. btw, he said villain showed him AJ in the first one.....:DOH:
PokerStars Game #35197228519: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25 USD) - 2009/11/10 22:45:47 CT [2009/11/10 23:45:47 ET]
Table 'Eduarda III' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: WeeBey11 ($41.95 in chips)
Seat 2: uemurdah ($3.85 in chips)
Seat 3: Corbaz ($19.55 in chips) - ULTRA NIT
Seat 4: Dankgrundle ($24.50 in chips)
Seat 5: Jo's Game ($11.30 in chips)
Seat 6: HERO ($24.95 in chips)
HERO: posts small blind $0.10
WeeBey11: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to HERO [2s 2h]
uemurdah: calls $0.25
Corbaz: calls $0.25
Dankgrundle: folds
Jo's Game: folds
HERO: calls $0.15
WeeBey11: checks
*** FLOP *** [3s 8h 2d]
HERO: checks
WeeBey11: checks
uemurdah: bets $0.25
Corbaz: calls $0.25 - Smooth calls on a dry flop!
HERO: raises $0.75 to $1
WeeBey11: folds
uemurdah: calls $0.75
Corbaz: raises $2.75 to $3.75 - Uhh Ohhh!
HERO: folds
uemurdah: calls $2.60 and is all-in
Uncalled bet ($0.15) returned to Corbaz
*** TURN *** [3s 8h 2d] [9h]
*** RIVER *** [3s 8h 2d 9h] [5c]
*** SHOW DOWN *** |
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Posted: Wed, 11 Nov 2009, 12:16pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 3037
WPP: 73
Location: Not Giving In
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| I mean what does "Ultra Nit" really say? Is he capable of limping big pocket pairs? Is he nitty postflop (probably)? The first one looks like a fold and the second one I guess call the last raise but I'd really like to know more reads. |
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Posted: Wed, 11 Nov 2009, 12:23pm Post subject:
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Straight Flush
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 4170
WPP: 77
Location: Dublin
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| friend in hand 2 is a spa |
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Posted: Wed, 11 Nov 2009, 1:22pm Post subject:
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Straight Flush
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 4209
WPP: 150
Location: St. Louis, MO
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these are the reads i got in his email. sorry i cant provide more. but, yes, nit means post flop, usually, with us and/or interchangable with "rock."
goat, what does spa stand for? i havent seen that yet. |
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Posted: Wed, 11 Nov 2009, 1:45pm Post subject:
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Straight Flush
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 4209
WPP: 150
Location: St. Louis, MO
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here is another classic fold from him. i am trying to convince him he is a nit. you guys seem to be supporting his side, though, so i am now trying to learn from what you are saying.
can you ever fold THIS??? the read i got was villain was 24/20 over 75 hands, and that doesnt do much for me.
PokerStars Game #35198009485: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25 USD) - 2009/11/10 23:20:36 CT [2009/11/11 0:20:36 ET]
Table 'Modestia' 6-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: abiPur ($6.35 in chips)
Seat 3: Shtonk ($25.60 in chips)
Seat 4: Murillo_As ($15.95 in chips)
Seat 5: rnningfool ($48.85 in chips)
Seat 6: HERO ($24.95 in chips)
Murillo_As: posts small blind $0.10
rnningfool: posts big blind $0.25
HooCane: sits out
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to HERO [Qs Qh]
HERO: raises $0.75 to $1
abiPur: folds
Shtonk: calls $1
Murillo_As: folds
rnningfool: folds
*** FLOP *** [9h Jc Td]
HERO: bets $1.75
Shtonk: raises $2.25 to $4
HERO: folds
Uncalled bet ($2.25) returned to Shtonk
Shtonk collected $5.60 from pot
Shtonk: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $5.85 | Rake $0.25
Board [9h Jc Td]
Seat 1: abiPur folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Shtonk (button) collected ($5.60)
Seat 4: Murillo_As (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: rnningfool (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: HERO folded on the Flop
i cant fold an overpair + OESD on the flop. if i think i have FE, i shove over. if i think i dont, i at least call here.....i could be ahead and cant be behind by too much with 8 outs. i suppose my 3rd Q could cooler the hell out of me, but there is a redraw there if it hits the turn. |
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Posted: Wed, 11 Nov 2009, 3:16pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 3304
WPP: 87
Location: Toronto'ish
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222 hand - I'm not folding this. Am I supposed to believe that villain is over-limping 88 here? no probably not, sure we're only losing to 333. Def. not folding t hat.
QQ hand is closer, since we block a lot of his pairs +OESDs that might be doing this. I probably usually end up jamming this though. |
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Posted: Wed, 11 Nov 2009, 3:25pm Post subject:
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Straight Flush
Joined: 02 May 2006
Posts: 4139
WPP: 63
Location: slow motion
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| wow that QQ hand is nitty as hell. |
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Posted: Wed, 11 Nov 2009, 5:16pm Post subject:
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Almost as bad as that idiot redgrape
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 6594
WPP: 74
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| Folding any of these hands is terrible. In the QQ hand you wouldn't want to fold even if you were behind 100% of the time. |
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Posted: Wed, 11 Nov 2009, 5:42pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 26 Feb 2009
Posts: 810
WPP: 133
Location: Slowrollin' in the $0.10 DONs 'cause that's what all the cool people on TV do
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| might i suggest building SOME KIND OF READS before making sick folds and proclaiming yourself the king of hand reading?! |
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Posted: Wed, 11 Nov 2009, 8:59pm Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 01 Mar 2008
Posts: 349
WPP: 138
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OMG I am NEVER folding that QQ hand.
And I would need really strong reads to even think about folding the 22 hand. |
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Posted: Wed, 11 Nov 2009, 9:15pm Post subject:
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Straight
Joined: 06 Feb 2005
Posts: 216
WPP: 175
Location: Denmark
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id have to go all the way with all 3 hands, at these stakes ppl do stupid shit all the time.
only time I fold this type of hands, is when I have a read, over several K hands with villian, that hes a huge nit that never bluffs. |
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Posted: Wed, 11 Nov 2009, 10:20pm Post subject:
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2009
Joined: 16 Feb 2007
Posts: 1656
WPP: 64
Location: bluffing scare cards
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| Explain to him that even if villain has a set 100% of the time (impossible btw) he still will win the pot 32% of the time... |
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Posted: Thu, 12 Nov 2009, 9:26am Post subject:
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Straight Flush
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 4209
WPP: 150
Location: St. Louis, MO
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| meeloche wrote: | | Explain to him that even if villain has a set 100% of the time (impossible btw) he still will win the pot 32% of the time... |
great point, meeloche. i already explained the 8-10 outer he dropped, without a real read, in the QQ hand. that he is rarely more than a 3:2 dog there and only needs about 10% FE to make it a coin flip.
he says, "well, it wasnt a real big pot and i felt i could cut my losses." I about went nuts!
for natural nits like him and me, i told him that big combo draws, especially those that are already likely ahead, you have to play those hard. real hard. stacking off on flops is kind of the goal because you have all your outs backing you up, and are likely ahead anyway.
he said, "it adds to my variance." i told him that poker may not be his game then...lol. very frustrating. thing is, he wins. he runs about a 6.33/100 (ptbb) over 25k hands at 25NL. |
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Posted: Fri, 13 Nov 2009, 3:45am Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 26 Feb 2009
Posts: 810
WPP: 133
Location: Slowrollin' in the $0.10 DONs 'cause that's what all the cool people on TV do
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| Chopper wrote: | | thing is, he wins. he runs about a 6.33/100 (ptbb) over 25k hands at 25NL. |
| Chopper wrote: | | he is a nit that runs a lot closer to 12/9 |
well good luck getting much further. 6.33 sounds like a baller winrate, but when you consider that it's only like a $10 hourly and that his playing style isn't going to get him much past 25nl, it sounds much less glamorous...like you might as well apply for a restaurant job. |
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Posted: Fri, 13 Nov 2009, 4:52am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 1826
WPP: 67
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| I find it hard to believe anyone is that nitty. |
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Posted: Fri, 13 Nov 2009, 9:13am Post subject:
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Straight Flush
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 4170
WPP: 77
Location: Dublin
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| 12/9 christ, they still exist??? poker must be so boring |
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Posted: Fri, 13 Nov 2009, 10:10am Post subject:
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Straight Flush
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 4209
WPP: 150
Location: St. Louis, MO
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| Da GOAT wrote: | | 12/9 christ, they still exist??? poker must be so boring |
so agreed.
@surviva, i understand the restaurant job comment, but you cant assume everyone wants to be a pro poker player, either. neither he or i do. we just want to play and beat the game in our free time. if its 10NL, fine. if its 500NL, fine. it doesnt matter all that much to us.....hmmm, which is why we are still microplayers. we arent going to put in the work to improve as fast as an aspiring pro will/should. |
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