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Posted: Thu, 05 Nov 2009, 9:56am Post subject: Night hand III..
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Straight Flush
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 4209
WPP: 150
Location: St. Louis, MO
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$0.50/$1 Limit Holdem
10 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com
READ: tables were running loose and seemed to be paying off tonight...strictly called because of all the limpers in already and table stats.
too loose preflop (very borderline, imo)? ok postflop?
Stacks:
UTG ($29.20)
UTG+1 ($31.30)
UTG+2 ($30.55)
MP1 ($21.35)
MP2 ($10.90)
MP3 ($82.30)
CO ($2.70)
BTN ($19.25)
Hero ($16.20)
BB ($30)
Pre-Flop: (1.5 SB, 10 players) Hero is SB  
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, 2 folds, MP3 calls, CO raises, 1 fold, Hero calls, 1 fold, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP3 calls
Flop:    (11.0 SB, 5 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP3 calls, CO raises, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 3-bets, MP3 calls, CO 4-bets, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP3 calls
Turn:  (14.0 BB, 5 players, 1 all-in)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 bets, 1 fold, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls
River:  (20.0 BB, 4 players, 1 all-in)
Hero bets, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls
Final Pot: 22.0 BB
CO shows
 
Hero shows a straight, Six to Ten
UTG+2 shows
 
Hero wins 21.5 BB (net +15.8 BB)
MP3 lost 2.7 BB
CO lost 2.7 BB
UTG+1 lost 4.7 BB
UTG+2 lost 5.7 BB |
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Posted: Thu, 05 Nov 2009, 10:00am Post subject:
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Straight Flush
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 4209
WPP: 150
Location: St. Louis, MO
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| i wonder what the hell CO 4bet the flop with, but folded to a single bet on the turn? |
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Posted: Thu, 05 Nov 2009, 11:24am Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 357
WPP: 139
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What would I do that with? A9/K9 probably and then think about someone else in that ridiculous hand having a higher pair or trips. TPTK on the flop is fine but once not improved on the turn I'd probably let it go too.
And you had pot odds all day long to call all those bets. NH IMO. |
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Posted: Thu, 05 Nov 2009, 11:29am Post subject:
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Straight Flush
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 4209
WPP: 150
Location: St. Louis, MO
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| you would raise A9/K9 pre and them cap a flop with 5 players in there? |
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Posted: Thu, 05 Nov 2009, 1:29pm Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 357
WPP: 139
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| If it was suited I've seen people do it. Hit a miracle flop and get paid off with nut flush. Every street you just invest a bit more and once the pot is $4 and you only have to invest another .25 you should theoretically be calling with just about anything. |
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Posted: Thu, 05 Nov 2009, 2:48pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 836
WPP: 181
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| Yeah, my guess is Ad7d or Ad9d. |
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Posted: Thu, 05 Nov 2009, 5:52pm Post subject:
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Straight Flush
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 4209
WPP: 150
Location: St. Louis, MO
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| ponyboy wrote: | | If it was suited I've seen people do it. Hit a miracle flop and get paid off with nut flush. Every street you just invest a bit more and once the pot is $4 and you only have to invest another .25 you should theoretically be calling with just about anything. |
i see players do this, too, and i think its a HUGE leak. i used to do it alot to "justify the chase." i figured TPTK is strong, vulnerable or not, and i would jam to charge draws. i figured that while i was likely ahead, i was also tying myself to the hand so i couldnt fold if the board gets ugly. i would do the same with draws. if i liked my draw, i would donk a turn when i expected a raise...telling myself i was building a pot and calling raises "with odds."
i stopped doing that crap, and my winrate went up. hmmm.
the 9 is just too vulnerable in a raised pot to be capping a 5way with. if i flop that 9, i am putting myself on 5 outs....period.
if that was villain's thinking, i want him at my tables all the time. |
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Posted: Thu, 05 Nov 2009, 6:14pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 836
WPP: 181
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| Chopper wrote: | | ponyboy wrote: | | If it was suited I've seen people do it. Hit a miracle flop and get paid off with nut flush. Every street you just invest a bit more and once the pot is $4 and you only have to invest another .25 you should theoretically be calling with just about anything. |
i see players do this, too, and i think its a HUGE leak. i used to do it alot to "justify the chase." i figured TPTK is strong, vulnerable or not, and i would jam to charge draws. i figured that while i was likely ahead, i was also tying myself to the hand so i couldnt fold if the board gets ugly. i would do the same with draws. if i liked my draw, i would donk a turn when i expected a raise...telling myself i was building a pot and calling raises "with odds."
i stopped doing that crap, and my winrate went up. hmmm.
the 9 is just too vulnerable in a raised pot to be capping a 5way with. if i flop that 9, i am putting myself on 5 outs....period.
if that was villain's thinking, i want him at my tables all the time. |
I suspect the villain's thinking was more like "I figure I am beat, but at this point I might as well see one more card and see if I pick up the nut flush draw or otherwise improve on the turn". I know, not a very rigorous calculation of implied odds.  But players think like that. |
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Posted: Thu, 05 Nov 2009, 6:42pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 836
WPP: 181
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| To be slightly more rigorous about this, a lot of players have a psychological block to bet-folding. This is actually an even bigger leak in no limit, where the raise is so much more costly. But bet-folding goes against human instincts to get some value for our money, in this case, another card or a showdown. So the tendency is-- WHETHER OR NOT ONE HAS THE CORRECT IMPLIED ODDS-- to pay the increased cost to see the next card and fold then rather than to either fold or make correct calls based on implied odds. |
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Posted: Thu, 05 Nov 2009, 7:39pm Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 357
WPP: 139
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| Chopper wrote: | | ponyboy wrote: | | If it was suited I've seen people do it. Hit a miracle flop and get paid off with nut flush. Every street you just invest a bit more and once the pot is $4 and you only have to invest another .25 you should theoretically be calling with just about anything. |
i see players do this, too, and i think its a HUGE leak. i used to do it alot to "justify the chase." i figured TPTK is strong, vulnerable or not, and i would jam to charge draws. i figured that while i was likely ahead, i was also tying myself to the hand so i couldnt fold if the board gets ugly. i would do the same with draws. if i liked my draw, i would donk a turn when i expected a raise...telling myself i was building a pot and calling raises "with odds."
i stopped doing that crap, and my winrate went up. hmmm.
the 9 is just too vulnerable in a raised pot to be capping a 5way with. if i flop that 9, i am putting myself on 5 outs....period.
if that was villain's thinking, i want him at my tables all the time. |
I agree...if I'm going to get in with suited crap like that I treat it like a low pocket pair - get in cheap and get out cheap. Justifying the chase in LHE is so easy when you only have to call say .50 to see another card if you have 7 outs when the pot is $5.
Another one of my major leaks is that I would rather raise a single flop bet even if I only hit TPMK to see if the others are serious about continuing because they feel they have the best hand. It's my "paying to see how confident they are" leak. |
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Posted: Thu, 05 Nov 2009, 8:20pm Post subject:
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Straight Flush
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 4209
WPP: 150
Location: St. Louis, MO
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dont get that confused with protecting your hand.
you hold 88 in a limped pot from MP. flop comes 4 ways and looks like 4h7dQd. aggro blind bets out, you?? |
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Posted: Thu, 05 Nov 2009, 10:58pm Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 357
WPP: 139
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| Chopper wrote: | dont get that confused with protecting your hand.
you hold 88 in a limped pot from MP. flop comes 4 ways and looks like 4h7dQd. aggro blind bets out, you?? |
If it's an aggro blind, I raise - expecting a call from someone holding x7. If it is the nit who is running 12/8 I would likely fold. |
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Posted: Fri, 06 Nov 2009, 10:12am Post subject:
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Straight Flush
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 4209
WPP: 150
Location: St. Louis, MO
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| agreed. just point out that raising in spots like these is to protect, for value, and the correct thing to do a lot of times. it isnt just to see how much villain likes his hand. if your main reason is to see how much villain likes his hand, its the wrong reason. there should be other reasons behind why you raise. |
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FTR $200 Freeroll at ChiliPoker, November 22nd 14:00 ET
