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Posted: Wed, 01 Jul 2009, 7:22pm Post subject: nice hand, sir
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Full House
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 840
WPP: 180
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PokerStars Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (10 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Preflop: Hero is Button with A , 8
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 2 folds, MP3 (poster) checks, CO calls, Hero calls, 1 fold, BB checks
Flop: (5.4 SB) 10 , A, A (5 players)
BB checks, UTG+2 checks, MP3 bets, 1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold
Turn: (5.2 BB) A (2 players)
UTG+2 checks, Hero checks
River: (5.2 BB) Q (2 players)
UTG+2 bets, Hero raises, UTG+2 calls
Total pot: $0.92 (9.2 BB) | Rake: $0.04
Results:
Hero had A, 8 (four of a kind, Aces).
UTG+2 had K, J (royal flush).
Outcome: UTG+2 won $0.88 |
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Posted: Wed, 01 Jul 2009, 7:37pm Post subject:
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Two Pair
Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 35
WPP: 89
Location: Sarajevo
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Whoa.
Sickest situation that could occur in a game.
Actually, there is a royal flush over straight flush possibility too.
But this is just, wow. |
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Posted: Wed, 01 Jul 2009, 8:33pm Post subject:
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Season VIII
Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 2260
WPP: 148
Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
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| Hmmm.. Why is checking the turn at all the correct play? |
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Posted: Wed, 01 Jul 2009, 9:47pm Post subject:
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11 OF DIAMONDS
Joined: 22 Nov 2005
Posts: 4381
WPP: 117
Location: ISHPERMING MISHIGEN
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| this hand is just so.... puke |
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Posted: Wed, 01 Jul 2009, 11:59pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 813
WPP: 69
Location: in my dad's account making him manies
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| yeah wtf are you doing on the turn, nobody folds fh's in nl, why would they in limit |
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Posted: Thu, 02 Jul 2009, 2:24pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 840
WPP: 180
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Actually, given my aggression on the flop, it's quite possible that someone might fold a boat on the turn if they put me on quads.
But also (and here is my folly), I want flush and straight draws and high card hands to take a chance against me on the river. It isn't like the entire range of Villain as of the turn is full houses. He could have a flush draw or even with king high. And those hands are folding to a bet on the turn but may take a shot on the river if the turn is checked.
Of course, I got one-outed on the river. |
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Posted: Thu, 02 Jul 2009, 3:40pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 813
WPP: 69
Location: in my dad's account making him manies
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| um so you think people will fold fh's getting 6:1 at .05/.1? I'm hard-pressed to believe they will fold draws. |
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Posted: Thu, 02 Jul 2009, 5:17pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 840
WPP: 180
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| Parasurama wrote: | | um so you think people will fold fh's getting 6:1 at .05/.1? I'm hard-pressed to believe they will fold draws. |
To be clear, I think a lot of players will call with fh's. But some might fold.
But I don't think anyone's calling on the turn with a flush or straight draw or King high against a bet after a raised flop in this situation. That player has to put me on at least the boat.
So if you are betting the turn, you have to be calculating that the value of the calls you expect to get from boats exceeds the lost value of the folds that you expect to get from everyone else. |
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Posted: Thu, 02 Jul 2009, 5:47pm Post subject:
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Royal Flush
Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 18762
WPP: 81
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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| Good thing he didn't 3 bet the river, he might have had to call a cap.... |
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Posted: Thu, 02 Jul 2009, 7:07pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 813
WPP: 69
Location: in my dad's account making him manies
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| LawDude wrote: | | Parasurama wrote: | | um so you think people will fold fh's getting 6:1 at .05/.1? I'm hard-pressed to believe they will fold draws. |
To be clear, I think a lot of players will call with fh's. But some might fold.
But I don't think anyone's calling on the turn with a flush or straight draw or King high against a bet after a raised flop in this situation. That player has to put me on at least the boat.
So if you are betting the turn, you have to be calculating that the value of the calls you expect to get from boats exceeds the lost value of the folds that you expect to get from everyone else. |
How can you assume your opponent is thinking about your hand at all when he flats your raise on the river with the immortal nuts?
What do you mean lost value of folds? You will get one bet out of people on the river when they hit their straight/flush. You will get at least two bets out of people with fh's.
If you think your opponents are smart enough to fold draws and sometimes fold boats why do you not give them credit for reading your fh on the river after hitting their draw and subsequently folding? |
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Posted: Thu, 02 Jul 2009, 7:17pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Posts: 1764
WPP: 77
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| Fnord wrote: | | Good thing he didn't 3 bet the river, he might have had to call a cap.... |
Afraid of those 5 aces that beat a royal obviously! |
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Posted: Thu, 02 Jul 2009, 8:44pm Post subject:
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Season VIII
Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 2260
WPP: 148
Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
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| KoRnholio wrote: | | Fnord wrote: | | Good thing he didn't 3 bet the river, he might have had to call a cap.... |
Afraid of those 5 aces that beat a royal obviously! |
You two are obviously on only level 2. Up here at level 6, we realize exactly when he called the river, instead of 3betting. Why you ask? So he could showdown his royal {acronym Renton hates}. |
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Posted: Thu, 02 Jul 2009, 9:10pm Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 536
WPP: 129
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| Overlimping unsuited Aces makes the Baby Jesus cry. Running into a one-outer is karmic retribution. |
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Posted: Thu, 02 Jul 2009, 10:02pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 840
WPP: 180
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| Parasurama wrote: | | LawDude wrote: | | Parasurama wrote: | | um so you think people will fold fh's getting 6:1 at .05/.1? I'm hard-pressed to believe they will fold draws. |
To be clear, I think a lot of players will call with fh's. But some might fold.
But I don't think anyone's calling on the turn with a flush or straight draw or King high against a bet after a raised flop in this situation. That player has to put me on at least the boat.
So if you are betting the turn, you have to be calculating that the value of the calls you expect to get from boats exceeds the lost value of the folds that you expect to get from everyone else. |
How can you assume your opponent is thinking about your hand at all when he flats your raise on the river with the immortal nuts?
What do you mean lost value of folds? You will get one bet out of people on the river when they hit their straight/flush. You will get at least two bets out of people with fh's.
If you think your opponents are smart enough to fold draws and sometimes fold boats why do you not give them credit for reading your fh on the river after hitting their draw and subsequently folding? |
1. Well, I didn't know that he was going to flat call on the river with the nuts when I was playing the turn. Certainly, in retrospect....
2. I may get 2 bets out of people on the river who hit their straight / flush. I may even get 2 bets out of people on the river who have King high.
There's a real unfortunate bias here against slowplaying, but the reality is, most of the time you have 4 of a kind, the opponents are NOT going to have boats. That's a very small portion of their range unless they raised pre-flop. As a result, most of the time, playing quads (with 3 of a kind on the board) fast is a very bad idea because only a few hands are going to call you.
If you have statistics showing differently, I'd like to see them. But I have a notebook full of quads hands that shows that in the games I have played in, fast-playing quads is not smart unless you know that the Villain has a made hand. |
Last edited by LawDude on Thu, 02 Jul 2009, 10:06pm; edited 1 time in total
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Posted: Thu, 02 Jul 2009, 10:04pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 840
WPP: 180
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| BennyLaRue wrote: | | Overlimping unsuited Aces makes the Baby Jesus cry. Running into a one-outer is karmic retribution. |
I got in 5-handed with position. A raise isn't getting anyone out of the hand, so it's either flat or fold. Since there's a lot worse hands to have in position than a moderately strong ace, I think it's a legitimate limp in a passive game. |
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Posted: Fri, 03 Jul 2009, 8:18am Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 813
WPP: 69
Location: in my dad's account making him manies
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ok well obv I know nothing about limit and I just saw in the hh that he called two bets cold on the flop so he's more likely to have a draw than a fh.
Let's look at it mathematically. Assume he has either a draw or a fh, and if he has a draw he thinks he has 12 outs. He always c/f's the turn, c/f the river when he misses and c/c the river when he hits the draw, and always c/c's the turn and c/c the river with a fh.
The EV of checking the turn and betting the river is ~.24*1bet*X+Y, where X+Y=1, X is the percentage he has a draw and Y is the percentage he has a fh.
The EV of betting the turn and betting the river is 2bets*Y.
So for checking to be better than betting, .24*X+Y>2Y, so .24X>Y, he has to have a draw >4 times as often as he has a fh. No idea whether this was the case. |
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Posted: Fri, 03 Jul 2009, 1:06pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 840
WPP: 180
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| Parasurama wrote: | ok well obv I know nothing about limit and I just saw in the hh that he called two bets cold on the flop so he's more likely to have a draw than a fh.
Let's look at it mathematically. Assume he has either a draw or a fh, and if he has a draw he thinks he has 12 outs. He always c/f's the turn, c/f the river when he misses and c/c the river when he hits the draw, and always c/c's the turn and c/c the river with a fh.
The EV of checking the turn and betting the river is ~.24*1bet*X+Y, where X+Y=1, X is the percentage he has a draw and Y is the percentage he has a fh.
The EV of betting the turn and betting the river is 2bets*Y.
So for checking to be better than betting, .24*X+Y>2Y, so .24X>Y, he has to have a draw >4 times as often as he has a fh. No idea whether this was the case. |
In an unraised pot, it's likely to be the case (only 1 in 17 hands is a pocket pair, and other than that there are only 3 cards out there as of the turn that make a full house).
In a raised pot, I tend to assume that the player who raised is more likely to have a pocket pair, which changes things. |
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Posted: Fri, 03 Jul 2009, 1:14pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 1611
WPP: 61
Location: Cheshire, UK
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| LawDude wrote: | | Actually, given my aggression on the flop, it's quite possible that someone might fold a boat on the turn if they put me on quads |
lol, one of the most stupid things i've head ever |
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Posted: Fri, 03 Jul 2009, 5:54pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 840
WPP: 180
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| Muzzard wrote: | | LawDude wrote: | | Actually, given my aggression on the flop, it's quite possible that someone might fold a boat on the turn if they put me on quads |
lol, one of the most stupid things i've head ever |
I've seen it done, face up, at a casino. |
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Posted: Fri, 03 Jul 2009, 5:58pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 1611
WPP: 61
Location: Cheshire, UK
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| LawDude wrote: | | Muzzard wrote: | | LawDude wrote: | | Actually, given my aggression on the flop, it's quite possible that someone might fold a boat on the turn if they put me on quads |
lol, one of the most stupid things i've head ever |
I've seen it done, face up, at a casino. |
Well done |
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Posted: Sat, 04 Jul 2009, 2:57pm Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
Posts: 364
WPP: 215
Location: Stackton
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| LawDude wrote: | | Actually, given my aggression on the flop, it's quite possible that someone might fold a boat on the turn if they put me on quads. |
Do you have Ace in your range? |
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FTR550: $100 Money Added at bwin, December 16th at 15:00 ET
