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KQ, AJ, and TT are big losers for me (full ring 25 NL)

  
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IowaSkinsFan
Post Posted: Fri, 30 Jun 2006, 4:10pm    Post subject: KQ, AJ, and TT are big losers for me (full ring 25 NL) Reply with quote
Almost as bad as that idiot redgrape
Almost as bad as that idiot redgrape

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According to PT those hands are big losers for me, however I only have like 6,000 hands. If these stats are true my resolve is this.
- fold KQ and AJ UTG and UTG +1 (Stats also show I lose a lot UTG with these hands.)
- play TT only for set value in EP and MP, raise in LP.

Fine?


Last edited by IowaSkinsFan on Sun, 02 Jul 2006, 12:45pm; edited 1 time in total
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Miffed22001
Post Posted: Fri, 30 Jun 2006, 4:14pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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6max or fr?

fr are all limps for me i think, or possibly even open fold. Of course if its a tight table then id prob raise hoping to steal or c-bet the flop. Really dependant on table structure
One problem i think these hands hold isnt necessarily domination but that when you hit tp with AJ or KQ you get called down a lot and its diffciult to find the difference on later streets between opponents putting you on missed overs or actually having a hand. Perhaps we overplay them a bit?
6max all are a raise without question in any position apart from sb perhaps
They certainly shudnt be losers imo
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dwags222
Post Posted: Fri, 30 Jun 2006, 4:18pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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6-MAX raise k-q any position??
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Miffed22001
Post Posted: Fri, 30 Jun 2006, 4:20pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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dwags222 wrote:
6-MAX raise k-q any position??
u limp KQo in 6max??!?!?
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jackvance
Post Posted: Fri, 30 Jun 2006, 4:25pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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dwags222 wrote:
6-MAX raise k-q any position??

yeah..
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Warpe
Post Posted: Fri, 30 Jun 2006, 4:25pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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They're all winners for me over 20K hands. I think your sample size is too small.
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Miffed22001
Post Posted: Fri, 30 Jun 2006, 4:39pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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6max, database 200k

KQo/KQs
+0.5bbs won per time dealt

AJo/AJs
+0.35bbs won pre time dealt.

If this was KJo/KJs then yeah, that hand sucks oop but KQ/AJ?
Fr with these hands is still a great/classic strategy discussion. 6max id argue hardly so, its raising hand imo.
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The Izebox
Post Posted: Fri, 30 Jun 2006, 4:41pm    Post subject: aj kq 1010 Reply with quote
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at a six max these are all playable hands from any position (in most situation) Try raising the pot preflop to reduce the callers, these hands lose value multiway. I would fold aj and kq if there was a ep raise and a call, simply because i dont feel comfortable playing top pair 3 handed from the ep. I would probably reraise the ten and bet big on the flop (if no ace) but be prepared to lay it down if im played back at. I think your problem that you see flops with too many other players.

This is for six max, at a FR i dont know how to play cash games...In a tourny id fold from the ep and open with all three...i might raise ep with the tens tho, depends on stacks
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dwags222
Post Posted: Fri, 30 Jun 2006, 4:45pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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I will raise k-q +1 to the button when folded to me most of the time...becoming more likely as i move toward the button, and limp w/ it the rest of the time. i would never raise k-q in the blinds unless the game was playing pretty tight or i had a tight image and or everyone was weak.
i guess if i had recently showed down a big hand w/ a big pot i might raise also.
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The Izebox
Post Posted: Fri, 30 Jun 2006, 4:50pm    Post subject: kq Reply with quote
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i agree with your blind play but why would you limp with kq from utg...you see a 59k flop with 6 callers then you have no idea where you stand. I say this is an easy raise/fold situation
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IowaSkinsFan
Post Posted: Sat, 01 Jul 2006, 12:04am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Almost as bad as that idiot redgrape
Almost as bad as that idiot redgrape

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lol no, I Play full ring.[/b]


Last edited by IowaSkinsFan on Sun, 02 Jul 2006, 1:07pm; edited 1 time in total
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Miffed22001
Post Posted: Sat, 01 Jul 2006, 12:33am    Post subject: Reply with quote
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IowaSkinsFan wrote:
lol no full ring.
if its full ring then we'll be here all day.
Its a classic.
On a tight table i will open UTg with KQ/AJ (esp sooted Razz) whereas at a loose table ill probably open fold AJ/KQo utg but ill limp with the sooted verison in hope that the table is loose passive and ill catch a flop and a fish with a worse hand
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DaHorror
Post Posted: Sat, 01 Jul 2006, 1:43am    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Miffed22001 wrote:
whereas at a loose table ill probably open fold AJ/KQo utg but ill limp with the sooted verison in hope that the table is loose passive and ill catch a flop and a fish with a worse hand


to complete the thought...

"but I'll fold to any respectable raise, given the caveat that the raiser is respectable."

Given that completion (which is implied but unstated), I fully agree with your FR AJ/KQ treatment at both loose and tight tables.
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Lukie
Post Posted: Sat, 01 Jul 2006, 1:50am    Post subject: Re: KQ, AJ, and TT are big losers for me. Reply with quote
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Quote:
lol no full ring.

i'm going to assume this means that you play exclusively 6-max.

IowaSkinsFan wrote:
According to PT those hands are big losers for me, however I only have like 6,000 hands. If these stats are true my resolve is this.
- fold KQ and AJ UTG and UTG +1 (Stats also show I lose a lot UTG with these hands.)
- play TT only for set value in EP and MP, raise in LP.

Fine?

This is way too weak IMO. In a 6-max game, TT should be an auto-raise in an unraised pot. No way you should only be playing it just for set value. I also open raise KQ/AJ, but sometimes if I'm UTG or something and there's a tough player on the button, I'll fold a hand like KQo and not think twice about it.

Post-flop, these hands can be tough to play out of position, but that's just the nature of the game. Smile
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Pelion
Post Posted: Sun, 02 Jul 2006, 8:03am    Post subject: Re: KQ, AJ, and TT are big losers for me. Reply with quote
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Lukie wrote:
Quote:
lol no full ring.

i'm going to assume this means that you play exclusively 6-max.


I read it as


Quote:
lol no. Full ring.


meaning the exact opposite of what you said.

=)
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Renton
Post Posted: Sun, 02 Jul 2006, 8:11am    Post subject: Reply with quote
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At full ring I toss AJo in the first two positions and I raise AJs. Same with KQ/KQs. In other positions raise them like anything else. They are both very playable hands. KQ is one of my favorite hands because since your raise reps Ax you actually have three cards that can bail you out on the flop.


TT is a raise in all positions and a bet / bet / bet/ fold to any raise type of hand a lot of the time. Just be prepared to let it go in overpair v. overpair confrontations.
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a500lbgorilla
Post Posted: Sun, 02 Jul 2006, 8:58am    Post subject: Reply with quote
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um, if you win one big pot with any of these hands, are they still losers?

I think you're jumping the gun on this one over just 6k hands.
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Lukie
Post Posted: Sun, 02 Jul 2006, 11:30am    Post subject: Re: KQ, AJ, and TT are big losers for me. Reply with quote
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Pelion wrote:
Lukie wrote:
Quote:
lol no full ring.

i'm going to assume this means that you play exclusively 6-max.


I read it as


Quote:
lol no. Full ring.


meaning the exact opposite of what you said.

=)

lol, no full ring

lol no, full ring

Sad
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IowaSkinsFan
Post Posted: Sun, 02 Jul 2006, 11:35am    Post subject: Re: KQ, AJ, and TT are big losers for me. Reply with quote
Almost as bad as that idiot redgrape
Almost as bad as that idiot redgrape

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 6593
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Lukie wrote:
Pelion wrote:
Lukie wrote:
Quote:
lol no full ring.

i'm going to assume this means that you play exclusively 6-max.


I read it as


Quote:
lol no. Full ring.


meaning the exact opposite of what you said.

=)

lol, no full ring

lol no, full ring

Sad


I play full ring.

I'm going to assume your exclusively an poopyhead.
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Lukie
Post Posted: Sun, 02 Jul 2006, 12:30pm    Post subject: Re: KQ, AJ, and TT are big losers for me. Reply with quote
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IowaSkinsFan wrote:
Lukie wrote:
Pelion wrote:
Lukie wrote:
Quote:
lol no full ring.

i'm going to assume this means that you play exclusively 6-max.


I read it as


Quote:
lol no. Full ring.


meaning the exact opposite of what you said.

=)

lol, no full ring

lol no, full ring

Sad


I play full ring.

I'm going to assume your exclusively an poopyhead.

um, ok. I was honestly confused by the way you worded it and I was trying to make a funny spin off on it.
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IowaSkinsFan
Post Posted: Sun, 02 Jul 2006, 12:43pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Almost as bad as that idiot redgrape
Almost as bad as that idiot redgrape

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Yeah it's fine. Maybe i'll edit the topic so it's clearer.
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Lukie
Post Posted: Sun, 02 Jul 2006, 12:49pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Alright, sounds good.
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jackvance
Post Posted: Sun, 02 Jul 2006, 1:28pm    Post subject: Re: KQ, AJ, and TT are big losers for me. Reply with quote
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IowaSkinsFan wrote:
I'm going to assume your exclusively an poopyhead.

huh?
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Lukie
Post Posted: Sun, 02 Jul 2006, 3:20pm    Post subject: Re: KQ, AJ, and TT are big losers for me. Reply with quote
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jackvance wrote:
IowaSkinsFan wrote:
I'm going to assume your exclusively an poopyhead.

huh?

I think my "lol, no full ring; lol no, full ring" comment was a bit over the top. Smile
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Lukie
Post Posted: Sun, 02 Jul 2006, 10:39pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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I usually always raise TT in all unraised pots, and I'll fold stuff like KQo/AJo from EP, and usually raise them from MP on. That's a rough guideline but approximates how I'd usually play.
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KQ, AJ, and TT are big losers for me (full ring 25 NL)

  

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