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JJ in the hole, to call an all in bet???

  
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Mony B
Post Posted: Wed, 25 Aug 2004, 1:57pm    Post subject: JJ in the hole, to call an all in bet??? Reply with quote
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I came across this situation sitting at a final table, i had about 45k in chips with the blinds 2k and 5k. Im in position and the person to my right goes all in, i have pocket jacks, and i fold. I wonder what to do in this situation, this guy isnt known to bluff at all and im not a huge fan of going in on a coin flip. He also went all in for 11k. I was just wondering what you all think of this situation or ones like it, and what to do???
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Humphrind
Post Posted: Wed, 25 Aug 2004, 2:08pm    Post subject: Re: JJ in the hole, to call an all in bet??? Reply with quote
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Mony B wrote:
I came across this situation sitting at a final table, i had about 45k in chips with the blinds 2k and 5k. Im in position and the person to my right goes all in, i have pocket jacks, and i fold. I wonder what to do in this situation, this guy isnt known to bluff at all and im not a huge fan of going in on a coin flip. He also went all in for 11k. I was just wondering what you all think of this situation or ones like it, and what to do???

What's his and your position? I'm going to guess he is UTG or CO with no bets before him.

Raise all-in. With the BB at 5K and his stack at 11K, he is pushing with a less than perfect hand. You want to raise all-in to eliminate anyone else from calling. It is possible he has KK or AK, but in his position he could also have AT or QJ, or even JT or A5. You have the hand to take him out, but you need to make sure no one else calls.

If you lose, you are still in the tournament and have a good stack in front of you.
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Krapp
Post Posted: Wed, 25 Aug 2004, 2:14pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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It looks like opp is shortstacked and wanting to steal the blinds. Also you risk is about 25% of your stack. Assuming the blinds fold you would need to call 11k in a 18k pot (or almost 2:1 return potential). Given that, I would probably call or go all-in
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BoondockSaint
Post Posted: Wed, 25 Aug 2004, 2:20pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Yeah I would more than likely go all in too. It would depend a little on the payout with me cause if it is a real big payout and there are a few short stacks at the table that are probably going to go out within a time or 2 around the table I would be much more likely to fold and see if someone else would knock him out. If it was just a so so payout I would probably call and take my chances.
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hig13
Post Posted: Wed, 25 Aug 2004, 2:54pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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I would call, if for no other reason, because of stack size.

If the person going all-in had AA or KK, why would they just attempt to steal blinds? They may have wanted to scare off good drawing hands, but not with that big of bet. At best, I would have put him on AK, and true, you would have been looking at around a coin flip, but not with all YOUR money. It' was all your opponents money and only 25% of yours. I say call.

Ok, I admit it. I've folded JJ in almost the same situation, but after giving it some thought, it seems that made the wrong move. Embarassed

If you read was no bluff like mine was, I guess I can't blame you..., but I would suggest calling.
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thnl
Post Posted: Wed, 25 Aug 2004, 3:11pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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i agree with hump "You want to raise all-in to eliminate anyone else from calling." but i wouldnt say raise all, but double his all at least to scare other callers away.
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michael1123
Post Posted: Wed, 25 Aug 2004, 4:15pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Yup. Stack size is the key.

Here's where not to, from personal experience of like 2 minutes ago. I'm 3rd in chips in a $20 NL MTT. 539 entrants, 50 some people left, just entered the money.

The blinds are 750/1.5k, and I get JJ on the button. An average stack from early position raises 3x BB. A very small stack calls all in, I'm not concerned about him, as I'm looking at the other guys chips. I nearly fold, as I'm very worried about an overpair, but decide I'll see a flop.

The flop comes T T 9 (two clubs, and I do have a club), and the opener checks to me. At this point he has about 14k left, and I have 25k+ left. I bet 5k, and he reraises me all in. I know he has me now, but its 9k into this huge pot and I have to call. If he has an overpair, I could spike a jack or hit a backdoor straight or flush, and I've already put so much into the pot.

He has QQ, the short stack had KK, I get no help, and I'm down to 15k in chips. I was stuck postflop, but I should've trusted my gut and folded preflop. No reason to risk it.

The next hand everyone folds around to me, and I go all in with AT, partly steam coming off, but its a better hand than anyone assuming I'm completely steaming would put me on. I'm hoping to pick up the blinds or get a weak call. My stack is still enough to put a huge dent into anyones stack, so I don't think I'll get a call.

The same guy that had the QQ calls with 77, I lose the coinflip, and I go from being a chip leader to out in 2 hands. Argh. Evil or Very Mad
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stevedonel
Post Posted: Thu, 26 Aug 2004, 8:12am    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Along the same lines, we were about half way through a MTT, I had about 2500 chips. I had JJ in the BB which I think was 150, UTG goes all-in for about 600, button goes allin for about 3000. What to do? I wimped out putting the button on a bigger pair. UTG had 77, button had TT, and of course, just to make me feel all warm and fuzzy, the flop was JK4. Oops!
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Humphrind
Post Posted: Thu, 26 Aug 2004, 8:14am    Post subject: Reply with quote
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rdu steve wrote:
Along the same lines, we were about half way through a MTT, I had about 2500 chips. I had JJ in the BB which I think was 150, UTG goes all-in for about 600, button goes allin for about 3000. What to do? I wimped out putting the button on a bigger pair. UTG had 77, button had TT, and of course, just to make me feel all warm and fuzzy, the flop was JK4. Oops!

In your case, I think you did the right thing. With a 2 way all in in front of you, and one of the people putting you all in, folding could be correct here,

I'd have to know the whole story before I can say definatly, but you probably did the right thing.
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michael1123
Post Posted: Thu, 26 Aug 2004, 11:58am    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Agreed. If UTG went all in in my case, it would've been an easy fold.

The key that I notice, at least in the higher stake / more skilled games, is that people protect hands like QQ and JJ much more than they do TT or less, or for that matter AA or AK. Some players play KK like QQ and some players play KK like AA, so that varies. So a very big preflop bet by a tight aggressive player that isn't short stacked, I usually put on a hand like KK, QQ, or JJ. Even 4xBB would've folded me. Damn that 3x BB bet.
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Mony B
Post Posted: Thu, 26 Aug 2004, 11:16pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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there where 7 people left in the tourny and neither of us where in position, i had position over him but there was still half the table left to either call of fold, i didnt want to risk a double up but i guess sometimes you just have to take the risk. By the way he turned over his hand to show tens in the hole to add insulte to the deep cut, i guess i will have to use my head next time. thanks for the replys by the way.
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michael1123
Post Posted: Thu, 26 Aug 2004, 11:41pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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So you would fold JJ if he had folded, with the rest of the table to act behind you? That's basically the situation. With his stack size and position (with the BB next hand) he's likely to go in with anything.
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Mony B
Post Posted: Sat, 28 Aug 2004, 8:39pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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of course not, i would play and raise. I wont be making that mistake agian!!!!!
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