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Posted: Tue, 15 Jul 2008, 2:20pm Post subject: IMPORTANT: Ultimate Bet Superuser Scandal Update
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Flush
Joined: 08 May 2007
Posts: 512
WPP: 88
Location: Out of my roll
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Shit is REALLY hitting the fan now, to the point where personal threats are being made to people who have helped bring the whole mess to the public eye and various webpages/news articles/ forum posters seem to be dissappearing from existence. The whole scandal is unravelling at a very fast pace and goes far deeper than anyone had previously imagined.
I urge anyone playing on UB, AP or Vegas 24 to withdraw all funds immediately. It would also be nice to see FTR remove their affiliate links as it is crystal clear that these are not people you want to be doing business with.
Here is a link to the most uptodate thread on the matter: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=248884
Most recent set of Cliffnotes originally psted by youmorons of 2+2 (alot has happened since these cliffnotes were typed but I'll be damned if I'm gonna sift through that thread picking out the relevant information) :
| Quote: | Here is a very short cliffnote of cliffnote summary for those of us who are time-challenged. What follows will be enough for the vast public (even non-poker people) who just want to know what happened. For details, read the entire thread and/or sort through the threads to selectively digest parts which you are interested in. Again, below is the summary of all summaries and (warning) it is short, leaving out details that others in the forum can provide or point you toward.
#1 – A popular online poker site, Ultimate Bet, discovered suspicious activity within its poker site through a combination of internal discovery and tips from poker players.
#2 – Ultimate Bet (herein “UB”) issued a press release announcing that several player accounts were closed as a result of their investigation into the manner. UB called these accounts “superuser” accounts and gave one such account a name – “NioNio.”
#3 – UB publicly stated the method through which the NioNio account (and other accounts involved) practiced unfair play was by gaining access to players’ hole cards. This was possible, UB stated in a press release, through a hole in their underlying software – namely, the audit system functionality built-in to the overall system was misused or abused. UB hired a third party consultancy to investigate. Many people believed that the issue would end there. Initial money refunds were made by UB to players who had lost money to the acknowledged superuser accounts.
#4 – Two unexpected events would draw further attention from the poker community and thus, lead to heightened scrutiny. First, UB stepped up its PR (public relations) efforts to quell or mitigate the damage to its reputation and perception of both cover up and rigged playing environment. Second, an anonymous person posted on a popular poker community forum (2+2) claiming to be a UB employee. These posts (by handle “brainwashdodo”) ignited a firestorm of interest.
#5 – brainwashdodo’s accusations that UB insiders were involved were thinly veiled but for the most part, he/she leaked account data which no one outside of UB’s employment should be able to access. Much of the data revolved around account transactions of suspected “superuser” accounts. It also included movement of money to/from “superuser” accounts and UB account of popular t.v. poker players which aroused even more interest and no shortage of semi-hysteria.This gave brainwashdodo some benefit of doubt and some credibility.
#6 – Poker community at 2+2 began to rigorously dissect the leaked information from brainwashdodo. Further, players began investigating other aspects of the situation such as : a) UB ownership history, b) UB software development and programmers involved, c) statistical histories relating to publicly disclosed superuser accounts, and d) anomalies pertaining to other past and current UB player accounts.
#7 – UB players began to send inquiries into UB about other player accounts believed to have statistically suspicious play and win patterns. Sure enough, UB confirmed many of these submissions. UB would later issue a follow up press release announcing additional superuser account names. With each new superuser account revealed, some I the poker community focused on the expanding refund pool but almost all players would hunker down and focus on the real question … “Who is behind the cheating? And what are the specific implications and broader ramifications?
#8 – UB steps up its PR by deploying its longtime spokesperson Annie Duke to conduct interviews. UB’s position and messages become routinely consistent: all of today’s problems are a consequence of yesterday’s ownership and their blunders. The “new” ownership is working to sort through it all. Again, the PR (as before) seems to have drawn more suspicion and scrutiny to the matter then deflect it. Now, the poker community gets even deeper into its investigation of the ownership structure (it seems to hold the golden keys to everything and provides all answers) AND catching the bad guys (vs. a shared focus on unearthing more and more accounts for the short term gain of cash refunds). The 2+2 community’s threads begin to reflect a sentiment of vigilance, vengeance, ad justice.
#9 – Meanwhile, poker community continues to analyze all of the suspicious accounts. Nat Arem, central to outing the owner of Absolute Poker who cheated his customers out of millions, is again at the center of the efforts to unearth the truth. Nat and rest of gang begin to hone I on a handful of publicly outed superuser accounts. The trail of evidence leads them to a groundbreaking finding!
#10 – The superuser account at the heart of this hub-and-spoke chain of accounts involved in cheating belong to none other than UB owner and poker pro Russ Hamilton. The hard evidence was obtained through UB account records, addresses, and property records. It is discovered that Russ is not acting alone. He has conspirators. Poker community is now following the trails of evidence to identify those conspirators.
There is where things have been left off.
A lot of open questions still remain but many believe that they will all come to light in due time. The investigation is more in-depth and faster than ever now. So, by the time you read this it will already be outdated.
Here are some of those open questions posed in the forums at random times:
Q: Who is Russ Hamilton’s partners in crime?
Q: What is the current UB ownership structure?Q: How extensive and deep is the UB software vulnerability? (note: This is relevant as the underlying software is used in a host of their poker sites in a licensee/licensor model of delivery)
Q: How much total money has been siphoned off the poker public by these crooks?
Q: What are the legal recourse available and should players even seek legal recourse? Could they? Looks like there is recent precedence of racketeering, money laudering, and tax evasion charges with racketeering being the one that sticks but it is all conjecture at this point due to the ext question which is --
Q: Who do we report this evidence backed crime to? FBI? IRS? State AGs? Maistream media? Grassroots outing campaign?
Q: What role did Freddy Deeb, Phil Helmuth, and Annie Duke have? (as of now, there is no determination until more data is discovered)
Q: Is Russ a limb or the head of this ring of fraud or racket? Is he the mastermind or the puppet?
Q: What does this mean for other, larger poker sites that essentially operate under the same rules (that is, not much rules)?
Q: Are the public faces like Annie Duke and Howard Lederer going to “spin” this around to make a case for the regulated, legalization of online poker and in so doing evade the real question of “are YOU directly or indirectly involved in this scandal?” Can they continue on as self-appointed ambassadors of poker and de facto self-appointed representatives of player rights when they are sitting on both sides of the fence? No one has accused either of them formally yet but the perception problem alone brings problems of their visible roles.
The list of questions fall off the page and fill a book.
To end: More is believed to be discovered. All are staying tuned for those breaking news as real life really indeed is better than fiction.
I'm sure I screwed this up as it's based on recall of reading the thread. Save your attacks if I made mistakes and just focus on correctig any. I just figured it was better to summarize than not. | |
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Posted: Tue, 15 Jul 2008, 3:10pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 06 Feb 2007
Posts: 3068
WPP: 65
Location: Spewing
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this is not good for online poker  |
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Posted: Tue, 15 Jul 2008, 3:20pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 06 Feb 2007
Posts: 3068
WPP: 65
Location: Spewing
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jesus christ just read a lot of the thread and it's a fucking disgrace. Nat getting threatened is just ridiculous....
people make me sick |
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Posted: Tue, 15 Jul 2008, 3:21pm Post subject:
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High Card
Joined: 08 Jul 2008
Posts: 13
WPP: 23
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| Wow. Crazy. Ty for the link Jib |
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Posted: Tue, 15 Jul 2008, 4:10pm Post subject:
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Straight
Joined: 08 May 2008
Posts: 158
WPP: 120
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If anyone listens to the 2 + 2 pokercast, they have touched on this before, although obviously this appears to be new information. Hopefully a new podcast from them will come out soon (They typically come out Tueday(today) mornings), and they'll touch on this.
If you don't listen to it, you should give it a go, it's pretty interesting/entertaining for the most part. |
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Posted: Tue, 15 Jul 2008, 5:14pm Post subject:
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Eats babies
Joined: 28 Feb 2006
Posts: 3889
WPP: 109
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As an aside to all this talk about cheating, I would like to point out that this should serve to show you that Sites are normally safe for play. Between smart players, open dialogue and programs like PT and HM, we are able to determine exactly who or what is gaining an unfair advantage. Most of these cheating allegations and outright admittance of scandal has started from players hand history records of the site, player winrates and some open dialogue on forums like 2+2.
It is imperative that we be allowed to use such programs and I feel any site that does not allow us to monitor HH's, dealt cards, players winrates and have us just "trust" the site, they may not be on the up and up. I for one think this is showing that the other sites are not cheating as of yet, since so many eyes smarter than ours are watching them. |
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Posted: Tue, 15 Jul 2008, 5:55pm Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 08 May 2007
Posts: 512
WPP: 88
Location: Out of my roll
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| jyms wrote: | As an aside to all this talk about cheating, I would like to point out that this should serve to show you that Sites are normally safe for play. Between smart players, open dialogue and programs like PT and HM, we are able to determine exactly who or what is gaining an unfair advantage. Most of these cheating allegations and outright admittance of scandal has started from players hand history records of the site, player winrates and some open dialogue on forums like 2+2.
It is imperative that we be allowed to use such programs and I feel any site that does not allow us to monitor HH's, dealt cards, players winrates and have us just "trust" the site, they may not be on the up and up. I for one think this is showing that the other sites are not cheating as of yet, since so many eyes smarter than ours are watching them. |
I wholeheartedly agree.....
Unfortunately it also shows that you have absolutely no idea what kind of people you are dealing with when you deposit onto a poker-room (there are 1 or 2 exceptions to this) and what they may be doing with your money. |
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Posted: Tue, 15 Jul 2008, 11:29pm Post subject:
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Straight Flush
Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 5683
WPP: 126
Location: Ballarat, Australia
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| The problem here is, this could really blow up in the mainstream media and make it even harder to reverse the UIGEA (or whatever it is). |
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Posted: Wed, 16 Jul 2008, 10:39am Post subject:
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Straight
Joined: 08 May 2008
Posts: 158
WPP: 120
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I just saw that the 2+2 pokercast cameout for this week, and part of the description is "Serge Ravitch, professional poker player and former lawyer is also featured on the program discussing some recent developments in the Ultimate Bet cheating scandal. "
I suggest you check it out if you're interested in the scandal, if you go to the 2+2 website you can't miss the link on the main page. |
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Posted: Wed, 16 Jul 2008, 12:07pm Post subject:
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Straight
Joined: 08 May 2008
Posts: 158
WPP: 120
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| Just a quick update, I am listening to the show right now and they're in the middle of talking about the scandal and it is very interesting. I guess Serge is going to be on 60 minutes in a month for an online poker piece that they are doing. He seems to be very knowledgeable about the whole thing. It's a very interesting listen, so definitely check it out if you're interested in this. |
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Posted: Wed, 16 Jul 2008, 7:22pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 06 Feb 2007
Posts: 3068
WPP: 65
Location: Spewing
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Posted: Wed, 16 Jul 2008, 11:27pm Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 306
WPP: 145
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| bjsaust wrote: | | The problem here is, this could really blow up in the mainstream media and make it even harder to reverse the UIGEA (or whatever it is). |
That is one of two outcomes I can see.
The other is that this all points out how important it is for these sites to be regulated and leads to something that will benefit all of us. |
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Posted: Wed, 16 Jul 2008, 11:31pm Post subject:
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OLD MAN RIVER
Joined: 14 Sep 2005
Posts: 3687
WPP: 80
Location: Canuckistan
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great link (and a locked sticky so the thread won't asplode) |
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Posted: Thu, 17 Jul 2008, 12:21am Post subject:
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Eats babies
Joined: 28 Feb 2006
Posts: 3889
WPP: 109
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Agreed Warpe.
I'm going to sticky this thread for now and then the link for a bit if or when this quiets down at all |
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Posted: Thu, 17 Jul 2008, 5:35pm Post subject:
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Straight
Joined: 13 Feb 2007
Posts: 226
WPP: 82
Location: Lincoln, UK
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This whole thing makes me feel all sick and stuff.
UB are going to get away with this just as AP did.
FTR please please please take your UB and AP links off this site, it makes you look so bad |
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Posted: Thu, 17 Jul 2008, 6:41pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 15 Oct 2004
Posts: 1507
WPP: 134
Location: moral high ground
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| Withdrawl in full submitted. |
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Posted: Mon, 24 Nov 2008, 5:15pm Post subject:
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Straight
Joined: 05 Aug 2008
Posts: 139
WPP: 204
Location: Going to church makes you a Christian about as much as standing in the garage makes you a car.
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http://www.pokerblog.com/29-september-2008-ultimate-bet-cheating-scandal-update.html
MOHAWK TERRITORY OF KAHNAWAKE – September 29, 2008) Kahnawa:ke Gaming Commission ("KGC") Chairman Dean Montour today announced the initial findings of the audit conducted on licensee Ultimate Bet, as well as the sanctions to be imposed.
According to KGC Chairman Montour, the Commission has reviewed the information provided to it over the past months from Frank Catania of Catania Gaming Consultants of New Jersey; Gaming Associates, an Australian game testing company; and the permit holder. Chairman Montour said, "The Commissioners have made several findings of fact with regard to the cheating that occurred on the Ultimate Bet web site that included the identification of some of the individuals responsible for these incidents as well other significant violations of the Kahnawa:ke Interactive Gaming Regulations."
The Commission found clear and convincing evidence to support the conclusion that between the approximate dates of May 2004 to January 2008, Russell Hamilton, an individual associated with Ultimate Bet's affiliate program, was the main person responsible for and benefiting from the multiple cheating incidents. Furthermore, the KGC is currently in contact with the appropriate law enforcement agencies and intends to fully cooperate in the prosecution of all individuals involved in the UB cheating incidents.
Mr. Catania states,
"My intention is to provide further information as it is uncovered, although the information already submitted to the KGC relating to Ultimate Bet warrants the KGC taking the actions it has today. Any further evidence uncovered with regard to cheating, withholding or destroying records in our continuing investigation will be reported to the KGC and the proper agency for appropriate action."
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As a result of the KGC's findings of fact, the Commission called a special meeting, at which time it was unanimously decided to impose the following sanctions against Ultimate Bet:
1. Ultimate Bet is directed that by November 3, 2008 it shall, under the close supervision of the KGC, its employees and agents, commence refunding all players accounts found to have been adversely affected by the cheating of individuals under the control and supervision of the licensee. It is estimated that Ultimate Bet has to date reimbursed $6.1 million USD to players' accounts found to have been adversely impacted by the cheating activity
2. Ultimate Bet is directed that by November 3, 2008 it is to remove any and all persons deemed as "unsuitable" by the KGC from all involvement with the company, which shall include all levels of ownership, management and operation. Ultimate Bet during that time period until November 3, 2008 is required to continue to provide complete details of all day-to-day operations of the company. These shall include financial as well as daily gaming records to Frank Catania and or his assigns. It is anticipated that this action will provide full disclosure and prevent any further improprieties or wrongdoing from occurring while ensuring that the public is being offered fair and honest games and all player monies will be protected.
3. Ultimate Bet's control system as defined in section 9 of the Kahnawa:ke Interactive Gaming Regulations has been modified to prevent any further incidents of cheating or related improprieties.
4. Ultimate Bet will not delete or modify any logs including but not limited to web logs and game logs as required by the Kahnawa:ke Interactive Gaming Regulations and will continue to have those logs immediately available for inspection by the KGC or its agents.
5. Ultimate Bet shall immediately pay a fine of $1.5 Million USD to the KGC for its failure to implement and enforce measures to prohibit and detect fraudulent activities.
6. Ultimate Bet's failure to comply fully with these measures will result in the immediate revocation of its KGC gaming permit.
Murray Marshall
Senior Advisor
Kahnawa:ke Gaming Commission |
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Posted: Mon, 01 Dec 2008, 8:51pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 1356
WPP: 96
Location: Washington, D.C.
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Posted: Fri, 06 Feb 2009, 10:08pm Post subject:
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High Card
Joined: 12 Jan 2009
Posts: 10
WPP: 70
Location: Bonners ferry Idaho
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| Oh, WOW!!!! I play on UB... uh I so pass on ever playing there again |
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Posted: Sat, 14 Feb 2009, 3:33pm Post subject:
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High Card
Joined: 04 Nov 2007
Posts: 4
WPP: 45
Location: Torino Italy
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Thats incredible that this history is still running around...
I hope that the good poker sites are not in the same condition, somethimes u can think it... but until now i trust...
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Posted: Mon, 09 Mar 2009, 4:00pm Post subject: wow great info
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High Card
Joined: 14 Jan 2009
Posts: 2
WPP: 18
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im read and thanks u very much for posted that interesthing to know  |
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Posted: Sat, 14 Mar 2009, 2:42pm Post subject:
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| And.... is there any organization checking the other online poker rooms???? you know, I like to play poker and I'm a little beat scare now... god!! ...jeje |
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Posted: Sun, 22 Mar 2009, 11:09am Post subject:
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High Card
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Posts: 2
WPP: 10
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| this is not good for online poker |
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Posted: Thu, 28 May 2009, 2:52pm Post subject:
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One Pair
Joined: 27 May 2009
Posts: 18
WPP: 11
Location: US
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really bad thing mate, i enjoyed playing online poker.
but after these incident, i take my steps slowly after gaining whole info about the site. |
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Posted: Sun, 14 Jun 2009, 12:29pm Post subject:
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Two Pair
Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 49
WPP: 118
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I have to wonder to what extent cheating occurs at all venues.
AP/UB were caught. The smarter perps I would guess are still operating and doing so without being noticed. With the ever evolving nature of malware and hacking, the smarter operatiors are possibly still taking their rake.
The next evolution would say you need to play at brick and mortar facilities. If you think that grifters and card mechanics are Hollywood creations I have to burst your bubble.
Both venues often employ shills to build the house take and this is considered to be legal.
As far as regulatiors look at the gret job they have done protecting us from Madoff and Wall Street. |
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Posted: Thu, 18 Jun 2009, 9:55am Post subject:
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Two Pair
Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 25
WPP: 74
Location: Toronto, Ontario , Canada
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| wow i do play at UB i guess ill avoid that site all together thanks for all the info |
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Posted: Sun, 21 Jun 2009, 10:30pm Post subject:
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High Card
Joined: 21 Jun 2009
Posts: 1
WPP: 306
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| This is not good at all.. Hope it gets all sorted out!.. Wish poker was what it used to be, Before all the drama |
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Posted: Sat, 11 Jul 2009, 9:01am Post subject:
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High Card
Joined: 11 May 2009
Posts: 3
WPP: 48
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Posted: Fri, 17 Jul 2009, 11:48am Post subject:
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High Card
Joined: 07 Feb 2009
Posts: 8
WPP: 73
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| It's good to see this issue in discussion a year later. You know cheating is going on to this day, somewhere - the only question is where and when will the next online poker scandal happen? |
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Posted: Fri, 21 Aug 2009, 5:24pm Post subject:
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One Pair
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 16
WPP: 124
Location: Norfolk, VA
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| I hope this never happens anywhere else... |
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Posted: Fri, 28 Aug 2009, 3:39am Post subject:
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High Card
Joined: 25 Aug 2009
Posts: 13
WPP: 17
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that's ridiculous, most of the times i will be playing online ,
but after this, i will be careful
thanks for sharing ! |
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Posted: Mon, 21 Sep 2009, 9:26am Post subject:
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One Pair
Joined: 13 Jul 2009
Posts: 19
WPP: 43
Location: Philippines
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| Thanks for the info, I"ve been playing in UB for quite sometime and I have"nt notice anything suspicious about it. Better check it out and if worst comes to worst, I will withdraw my funds in that site. |
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Restricted FTR $200 Freeroll at FullTilt on November 23rd
