I wish I could pick up some tells

This is the weakest part of my live game.. I can't read anybody. I really haven't needed to because the players at my game are so bad, but its a skill I know I need to improve.

There is one player in particular at my home game that stone cold bluffs a lot, and it would be extremely valuable if I could recognize some of his tells. I just can't do it though.

At one point in the last game, I caught him in a situation where I absoutely knew he was bluffing. But not from any tells he was giving off, just because I knew from how his preflop play and how he was check calling that he was on a flush draw. When he missed his flush on the river, I remember thinking, "if he bets here I should try to pay attention to any tells that I could use in the future." Well he bet alright.. re-raised me twice, the second time putting him all-in, and sure enough I called with trips and he turned over his busted flush draw.

Anyways, the point is, I still didn't pick up any tells from the guy.. It should be obvious when you know a person is bluffing, but I still couldn't do it. I read Caro's book of tells but maybe I need to re-read it. I dunno.. Anyone else have this problem?

The game isn't about tells, it's about betting patterns and table image. Danny Negreanu talks about people over emphasizing tells in poker. If you arn't a tells genius like Mike Caro, you'll probably over analyize them and it may lead to a backwards read...

Just forget about them for a while.

-'rilla

Maybe your right.. I do pretty well without knowing them..

Depending on who you talk to, this is a tell...

if someone is smoking you can tell something by the way he blows his smoke out

I don't like smoke. But is there a tell from a nicoderm patch?

-'rilla

SSH talks about this too. Attack weakness. Just about everything else is over-rated.

just a quick note: i think the person who said above that you can tell if someones bluffing from the way he blows out his smoke.... well, I think that person has been watching rounders too much

well, ive picked up on some tells people use in our regular home games - stacking his chips nicely just before he puts them in when he's bluffing, and another one is that this one person always does this particular chip trick when he's bluffing (im not the only one to have picked up this one).

Personally, i dont use to much energy trying to find tells, i concentrate on betting patterns and memorize how certain people play certain hands in certain situations.
An example could be player X might always raise 5x BB preflop woth bullets or kings, if he has suited connectors he might always raise 3xBB etc.

Ive been reading on this forum for a while, but not felt the desire to express my own opinion until now.

Concerning the whole smoking and bluffing thing. I do believe that there are certain tells in smoking. For instance, if the person is a smoker and makes a big bet, watch his for a while, a good while. See how many times you see a puff of smoke coming out. If you see none. He obviuosly is nervous, for one reason or another, most likely bluffing. However, on th other hand, if hes practically chewing on his cig. you can bet that he's excited, most likely with a good hand. This won't work in all cases, but generally I fell its a good rule to go by.
Holla!
Logan

A word of caution to those looking for tells, this only works on fish! An experienced player will not have any consistency with his body language, either instinctually or conciously. Any of you wanna try reading Daniel Neg, or Juanda, or even the solid player in your home game?

The best thing about body language is that an observant mind records it, and filters it with other information (betting patterns) to give provide you with a 'gut feel', this is also described as intuition.

In short, there are no 'rules' with tells, they have been dramaticized since damon did the judges and the taj scenes in Rounders. Betting patterns are where its at.

Of course if a fish does have some iron clad tell, use it.

there is definetly a natural knack thing for tells, but it also can be developed i'm pretty sure. I was lucky, tells was my first strong point, it was funny how i'd be able to tell someone their cards, but was too timid to bet at them if they had anything better than me, or when i'd call and tell them what they have and when they show it i'd muck my hand... anyway sorry for that, tells are not signs around a persons neck, i couldn't do the exact same thing twice if i tried, so how could i do it subconsciously? Mike Caros book spells em out if thats what you want, against fish they are recognisable, i don't agree with others saying that it'll only wear you out and get you confused, i'm living proof otherwise. play online and learn to read betting patterns, easier there because thats all there are is numbers, then you can add in actions twitches ect in a live game, one step at a time. rule of thumb though, don't bother with tells in a game thats not serious, if the players don't care reading is a LOT harder to do accurately, and if they don't care prolly not worth much anyway Razz

serious about the online thing though, best way to learn, and go with your gut, maybe your better at it than you believe you are.

Something I see a lot when (and has been said by some pros) is that people put their hands over their mouth when they bluff. Also if they are bluffing their heart rate will increase, so watch their necks, and temples to see if thier heart is racing. Watch for people being overly friendly... try to get them to talk. But above all go on your instincts and use what you know about this person. This is obviously only for live play, and is just my opinion

so if he is excited he has nothing or the nuts, cool just hope i dont make a mistake between the two lol.

-anto

That's why I wear a neck-brace during live play.

-'rilla

I think the only tell I use with consistant results is from Mike Caro:
If a player stares at a flop for a few extra seconds, he's got jack.

Other than that, it really is just practice and study. I also think there is alot in the way people say "all in". Some times people say it timidly, or annouce it or say it while sighing.

That said, I think you can do alot more with your game working on giving off false tells. When someone stares you down and projects the "I am reading you, whats up?" glare, its a wonderful way to punish them. i have made more off glancing at my chips before I bluff then I have staring at peoples neck veins.

And who wants to stare at neck veins anyway?

I play with the same 8-10 guys every single week, with a few other guys that play semi-regularly. I've picked up on a few physical tells that are beyond obvious and I absolutely murder these players, or I get out of the way when I know they've got a hand. I've not noticed a physical tell for a majority of the guys I play with, so I have to look for other things.

The thing that's helped me most is to take note of people's betting patterns. If you combine that with any sort of physical tell that you may pick up on, it'll make you a better poker player.

a couple of the guys i play with have tells in their voice like a certian one of my friends always tries to act calm nd tries to joke aroundf when he is bluffing another one of my friends is dead silent while he bluffs

Tells are a gold mine on players who are not aware of their actions. Reading Caros book will constantly come into handy upon average/begginer players.

Heres some tells I use (no specific order)... Feel free to add to this list...

1. Acting like im gonna grab my opponents card by invading there personal space. If they have a monster they will be very protective. Yet, if they dont they wont care as much. (If you want me to give you examples of when I would use this ask, only do it once or twice a game)

2. Opponent looks at there chips and then look away when the flop comes =good hand. <------ (Extremely great tell)

3. Shaky hands= strong hand, (releasing of tension).

4. When someone goes all in I take my time. If the opponent is tapping his finger or moving alot, I know hes possibly got something good. Yet, if the player is not moving one bit, hes probally bluffing me.

Using these tells against good players is stupid.One guy I constantly play with on friday night understands the concept of strong means weak and throws in mixed signals. Therefore, I only study his betting patterns and ignore most common tells. Yet, some players are flat out stupid. Some of my friends act like a distracted bettor and expect me to believe they have nothing HA!

Anyone should be able to win against average/intermediate players with practice. Yet, with tells you can do more then win you can dominate the average opponents with the extra information you have gained. Live games are usually a combination of blending physical tells with betting patterns. Take mental notes in your head and try to focus on one player at a time. Starting with the one on your left or right..

preflop raise patterns, and flop betting patterns are just about all you need to know

This tell mentioned above about smoking is pretty easy and is talked about in Caro's book of tells.

If a player makes a big bet and then Puff's out a lot of smoke he has a good hand.

If he had nothing, he would not want to attract much attention to himself or give you any reason to call.

Also, if not already mentioned. You tend to hold your breath, or not breathe as deeply when you are bluffing.

Picking up tells takes practice. You can't just read Caro’s book and be an exhalant physical tell... You can watch the videos I have in my link 1000 times and still miss some tells... I think Phil Ivey has the best eyes for seeing tells he is always darting them around looking at everyone... you can actually get a tell of someone easier if they are not in the hand because they let there guard down a lot... if you are an export at read people body language honestly you could play an entire game not looking at your cards and come out ahead... I don't suggest trying this unless you are prepared to trust your reads 100% and you have some money to swing a bit...

In a live game physical tells become more important, though betting patterns and things that you would use online should also be used...

99% of tells are total bullshit. they only work on players who have played 5 times in their life. just because i look at the flop for a long time doesnt mean i didnt connect, maybe im just trying to fucking figure out how many draws there are and how much i need to bet? maybe im figuring out all the possible hands my opponent could have had preflop that would connect with the flop. stupidest tell ive ever heard.

as for the smoking one, i am a smoker. and i blow my smoke out the same when im bluffing or not....you inhale, you exhale. its a habit. i dont hold it in for any longer or any shorter. what if i french inhale? what does that mean??? what if i blow smoke rings?? what if i dont inhale?!?!?! theres 8 billion things you can do with a cigarette and 8 billion reasons you do each one of them, and 99% of them have nothing to do with the cards in your hand. please dont try to make a decision solely on how they smoke their cigarette, you'll end up losing a lot of money. dont focus on physical tells, its the betting pattern that tells you everything.

*Last edited by loanhorse on Wed, 03 Aug 2005, 6:27am; edited 1 time in total*

look at there hands for tells on some players

The idea that good players don't have tells is ludicrus. Very good players have almost no tells so far as acting goes, that is, they seldom give away information that does not work to their advantage in some way. But even the good players at your home games DO have tells that convey levels of strength.

The problem is that most people hear the word "tell," and think of movie tells where a guy plays with his moustache when he has aces full. The fact is that tells are never specific to hands, but are all around you and your poker game no matter how good a poker face you may have.

There are no tells that all players exhibit, but many tells that indicate the direction of what most players hold. "Tells" may not be a focal point in your game, but the ability to read opponents is the most important skill in NLHE and a very important skill in limit games. The reason professional players can play people "blind"- even good players- and win, is because of their ability to read their strength.

So don't focus on picking up on your opponents Oreo eating habits, but in a NL game, ignoring the skill to read would be absurd.

Hahahaha last night It was me and another guy in a pot, I had A7.
He had about $17.50 in chips I had about $27.50 and the chips were valued.

Now this guy is just a beginner, better than a fish but still falls for acting. I'd never played with him before but I realized I basically had a fish acting directly behind me. So anyways, everyone fold to us. We both call the blinds or whatever and the flop comes 3 7 7, giving me the nut set. I forget which suits they were. I check to the guy and just stare at the cards/table. I notice he starts to count his chips as if he's going all-in and I realize he's seeing if I'm gonn show any sign of weakness at this or give off a tell. So I give him one. I act fidgity and put my head in my hand not very dramatically but subtly looking disappointed in the flop and at the prospect of him raising.

He goes AI for $17.50 trying to steal the $1 pot. I quickly call and flip em. He cusses a few times and I just keep starin at the table feelin bad for the guy because he had quit his job and decided he's going to play poker for a living... and he just lost his last $20 bucks or something. After the hand he said he went all in because I looked disappointed that he was raising. I told him that was my intent.

Anyways... the point is that if you act for a beginner they're likely to fall for it. Last night playing in the hardest game I've every played (the other people were good and some frequent casinos) I spotted the sucker and used TELLs to take down a huge pot that almost doubled my chip stack. These chips woulda went to one of the other guys who were good boarderline expert but instead they went to the novice (me) because I used a simple thing like a tell to my advantage. It's not just "spotting tells" It's about using tells to your advantage in a wide array of situations. Sometimes this means giving them to induce a certain action from an opponent.

Note: I'd not have tried this poor acting job against one of the better players at the table and I don't reccomend any of you doing that either.

After that big hand I cashed out my $20 buy-in so I for sure wouldn't lose any money. I was still the big stack at the table but I went on to lose a $75 dollar pot, went down to $10 left, brought it up to $15 and by that time the last 3 players (myself included) wanted to cash out so I left with my buy-in and an extra 15 bucks to take home.

Iif anything is contestant it's a tell if I see a guy look at his cards every time he has a hand and look at the board when bluffing if that's constant that has nothing to do with psychology that's just patterns... psychology is more or less getting in there mind, what are they thinking why would they make the actions they did... it's more about getting in the mind and out playing them... psychology of your opponents is to help you sort out the patterns in the body language... or at least that's how I use it... betting patterns, body language all go into my psychology arsenal to out play them...

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I wish I could pick up some tells

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I wish I could pick up some tells