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Posted: Fri, 22 Jul 2005, 7:14am Post subject: HU - How should my tactic be?
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Flush
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 564
WPP: 133
Location: Norway
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I have decided to play SnGs for a while and see how it goes. Last night I played two one table SnGs with 5.50$ buy in, paying three places 25-15-10. First I got into the money very short stacked and ended up in third place. In the second I was lucky and after a nice comeback from only 200 chips with 5 players left, I ended up heads up with 4500 in chips against 5500. Blinds were at 320/640.
Hand 1 (4500 vs. 5500)
I get Q30 in the SB and raise to 1500. He calls and flop brings J85 with two diamonds. I check he checks and turn brings a K. I then give up winning the hand and check it out while he bets 1500 on the river and I fold. Should I have bet or pushed the flop or turn? Bet harder preflop? Fold preflop?
Hand 2 (3000 vs. 5500)
He raises from SB to 2000 and I push with A6o
He shows AJo and also hits a J on the flop and I'm out in second place.
I could use some advice for HU play in general. Usually the blinds are at 320/640 and soon increase to 640/1280 when I go HU in these SnGs and total chips are 10 000. |
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Posted: Fri, 22 Jul 2005, 8:10am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 3462
WPP: 153
Location: Ellicott City, MD
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| Be more aggressive when he's not showing strength. The Q3 hand was an excellent place to raise on the flop or turn. The A6 hand was a tad more questionable because he's shown strength. There you need to know a little bit about what he's willing to open with. Against many opponents (who would raise regardless of cards), the push is a decent play. If you were play one of the opponents who requires a hand to make a move, however, then you can be pretty sure you're not ahead here and look for a better spot. |
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Posted: Fri, 22 Jul 2005, 8:14am Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 15 Mar 2005
Posts: 1109
WPP: 137
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| With blinds that high the cards will dictate the outcome. Q3 is a below average hand, I would have tried to limp in with that if he's passive else fold and wait for something like q7+,K7+,JT,Ax or a PP to pull the trigger with. Your preflop raise in that first hand was 1/3 of your stack, better off pushing in my opinion unless you plan on doing a stop and go (hopefully with a better hand than that). You have to be super aggressive with those stacks and blinds and pick a hand to ride with. Read HOH2, it has a section on HU play. |
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Posted: Fri, 22 Jul 2005, 8:31am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 3462
WPP: 153
Location: Ellicott City, MD
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| arkana wrote: | | With blinds that high the cards will dictate the outcome. Q3 is a below average hand, I would have tried to limp in with that if he's passive else fold and wait for something like q7+,K7+,JT,Ax or a PP to pull the trigger with. Your preflop raise in that first hand was 1/3 of your stack, better off pushing in my opinion unless you plan on doing a stop and go (hopefully with a better hand than that). You have to be super aggressive with those stacks and blinds and pick a hand to ride with. Read HOH2, it has a section on HU play. |
You don't have to have a better hand for it to be worth raising. In fact, many arguments could be made for letting your opponent take the lead when you have a made hand, but betting to get him out when you don't.
Your hand plays more into whether or not you should call than it does into whether or not to raise. Your opponent, image, and reads are all more important than your cards in deciding whether or not to raise. |
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Posted: Fri, 22 Jul 2005, 8:54am Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 564
WPP: 133
Location: Norway
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Thanks for advice guys  Sometimes HU just seems like "push and hope for the best" due to the big blinds, but it must be possible to improve in HU skills also in these situations.
This player was quite aggressive and used trapping with big hands. I had seen him limp and check raise with AA to take out one of the others earlier and if I had called from SB he would raise any hand I think. I had been passive throughout the SnG due to terrible cards and had only made a few steals and a desperate All in hand with KJ flopping a straight and taking me into the money as I elminated two guys, so his read on me would be "quite passive".
| Quote: | | JeffreyGB wrote: Be more aggressive when he's not showing strength. The Q3 hand was an excellent place to raise on the flop or turn. The A6 hand was a tad more questionable because he's shown strength. There you need to know a little bit about what he's willing to open with. |
So for Q3 I should have pushed the turn when he also just checked the flop, or should I just push the flop when he didn't raise me preflop? I was affraid of a trap.
In the A6 hand I pushed my A just hoping he just had a face card and I was in for 640 of my 3000, so not many chances left, as he was aggressive. It seems that quite often an A is enough to win HU and I would have pushed if I was first to act. Right?
| Quote: | arkana wrote:
With blinds that high the cards will dictate the outcome. Q3 is a below average hand, I would have tried to limp in with that if he's passive else fold and wait for something like q7+,K7+,JT,Ax or a PP to pull the trigger with. Your preflop raise in that first hand was 1/3 of your stack, better off pushing in my opinion unless you plan on doing a stop and go (hopefully with a better hand than that). You have to be super aggressive with those stacks and blinds and pick a hand to ride with. Read HOH2, it has a section on HU play. |
What book is HOH2? Limping was not an option with this guy. He would have raised me for sure. So then you say push the Q3 or fold it and hope for a better spot? |
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Posted: Fri, 22 Jul 2005, 9:01am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 3462
WPP: 153
Location: Ellicott City, MD
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I'm not a big fan of pushing, honestly. I'd have raised less preflop (probably 1800) with the Q3, then raised (not pushed) on either the flop or the turn.
Given your read, the A6 hand was acceptably played. Again though, I'm not a fan of getting all the chips in preflop if he's likely to fold.
HOH2 = Harrington on Hold'em volume 2 - The Endgame. Good book. |
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Posted: Fri, 22 Jul 2005, 11:40am Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 15 Mar 2005
Posts: 1109
WPP: 137
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| JeffreyGB wrote: |
You don't have to have a better hand for it to be worth raising. In fact, many arguments could be made for letting your opponent take the lead when you have a made hand, but betting to get him out when you don't.
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The ratio of his stack to the blinds is so low that a decent preflop raise required a third of his stack. Betting the flop would require the rest (or very close to it). When you have a higher M then you can get more creative... Fact of the matter is with low M confrontations the winner is decided in one or two confrontations. Raising 1/3 of your stack and check folding the flop unimproved is just plain silly since you will miss the flop most of the time. Betting the flop will commit you. (Unless you try the post oak bluff but that won't work vs your avg opponent).
| JeffreyGB wrote: | | I'm not a big fan of pushing, honestly. I'd have raised less preflop (probably 1800) with the Q3, then raised (not pushed) on either the flop or the turn |
1800 > 1500? Blinds are already 640/320 so a minraise is 1280, can't really raise less than 1500.
Pot is 3000 on the flop and hero has 3000 left, how much do you want him to bet here without committing himself? If hes committed after the bet hes better off pushing.
Pushing while you still have some leverage is way better than wasting chips with weak bets. Keep in mind that the blinds alone are 960 chips...
Im not a move in specialist, I prefer to play post flop poker but with these stack\blind ratios its not possible. |
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Posted: Fri, 22 Jul 2005, 12:20pm Post subject:
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3-of-a-Kind
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
Posts: 101
WPP: 96
Location: New York
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| HU play really depends on your style and what your stack looks like going into it, not to mention the height of the blinds. Since the blinds are usually quite high, as in this case. I wouldnt have gone in with the Q-3, but definitely with the A-6. If I'm first to act, I'll push hard with any A or K or QJ, QT, JT, PP, or suited connectors PF. alot of it really depends on your read of the opponent as well. Be aggressive if you're low on the stack and getting eaten by blinds. |
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Posted: Fri, 22 Jul 2005, 2:40pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 3462
WPP: 153
Location: Ellicott City, MD
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| arkana wrote: | | JeffreyGB wrote: |
You don't have to have a better hand for it to be worth raising. In fact, many arguments could be made for letting your opponent take the lead when you have a made hand, but betting to get him out when you don't.
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The ratio of his stack to the blinds is so low that a decent preflop raise required a third of his stack. Betting the flop would require the rest (or very close to it). When you have a higher M then you can get more creative... Fact of the matter is with low M confrontations the winner is decided in one or two confrontations. Raising 1/3 of your stack and check folding the flop unimproved is just plain silly since you will miss the flop most of the time. Betting the flop will commit you. (Unless you try the post oak bluff but that won't work vs your avg opponent).
| JeffreyGB wrote: | | I'm not a big fan of pushing, honestly. I'd have raised less preflop (probably 1800) with the Q3, then raised (not pushed) on either the flop or the turn |
1800 > 1500? Blinds are already 640/320 so a minraise is 1280, can't really raise less than 1500.
Pot is 3000 on the flop and hero has 3000 left, how much do you want him to bet here without committing himself? If hes committed after the bet hes better off pushing.
Pushing while you still have some leverage is way better than wasting chips with weak bets. Keep in mind that the blinds alone are 960 chips...
Im not a move in specialist, I prefer to play post flop poker but with these stack\blind ratios its not possible. |
That's what I get for posting while in the middle of a lecture on network security...my bad. |
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Posted: Fri, 22 Jul 2005, 2:47pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 3462
WPP: 153
Location: Ellicott City, MD
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| JeffreyGB wrote: | I'm not a big fan of pushing, honestly. I'd have raised less preflop (probably 1800) with the Q3, then raised (not pushed) on either the flop or the turn.
Given your read, the A6 hand was acceptably played. Again though, I'm not a fan of getting all the chips in preflop if he's likely to fold.
HOH2 = Harrington on Hold'em volume 2 - The Endgame. Good book. |
Looking back at it now, in a none-busy setting, the only major change I'd suggest is pushing on either the flop or turn of the Q3 hand. If you really feared a trap, waiting for the turn was ok. If not, then go for it when he checks the flop.
My previous comments overlooked the size of the blinds. Sorry about that. With blinds as big as they were and stacks that even, it's going to take some luck to win. |
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Posted: Fri, 22 Jul 2005, 3:45pm Post subject:
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Straight Flush
Joined: 24 Jan 2005
Posts: 5409
WPP: 60
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I push Q3o with blinds that big.
Depending on how i feel I might fld that A6o to his PFAgression. |
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Posted: Sat, 23 Jul 2005, 12:42pm Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 564
WPP: 133
Location: Norway
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Thx for all comments.
Regarding Ax vs Ax, how big favourite will I be with AKo against any AXo
if I push preflop HU? |
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Posted: Sat, 23 Jul 2005, 12:53pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 887
WPP: 146
Location: Dallas, TX
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| 75% chance of winning or 3-to-1 favorite. |
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Posted: Sat, 23 Jul 2005, 1:15pm Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 564
WPP: 133
Location: Norway
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| ok-thx, I just busted out in 5'th place after pushing AK against AT and he called. He flopped a T and I was out. But then at least my push was right |
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Posted: Sat, 23 Jul 2005, 1:39pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 1461
WPP: 122
Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot
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| with blinds at 640 or 1280 you can't go wrong. when in doubt just push. only fold bottom of the barrel hands. i don't really think there should be any post flop play, unless you get a real hand and want to milk him. |
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Posted: Sat, 23 Jul 2005, 9:36pm Post subject:
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Straight
Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 151
WPP: 106
Location: Gaylord, MI
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| i only read a couple threads but i think i agree, if you raise pre flop you basically must bet into the flop even if you are not in position, because it is really hard to hit a hand hu. in hu i try to avoid preflop raising unless i got a a-x k-9 or better, q-10 or better, and any pocket pair. otherwise i'm calling/checking, and when i hit my hand i just check it to the other guy because, at least at pp, they are almost always going to fight for the pot whether they have it or not. as an aside, be very cautious betting into a hand after it is checked to you unless you have caught a piece of the flop. uhm, yeah hopefully that wasn't too much rambling. |
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FTR $100 Freeroll at LuckyAcePoker, Nov 21st @ 15:00 ET
